Ukraine: Invasion Imminent?

[Guest makapaka]

3 hours ago, harvey19 said:

What would be a satisfactory conclusion to this situation not only for Russia and Ukraine but worldwide ?

It’s irrelevant because there won’t be one - only going one way and has been from start 

[trastrick]

5 hours ago, harvey19 said:

What would be a satisfactory conclusion to this situation not only for Russia and Ukraine but worldwide ?

You'll never satisfy all the people in war. Only the inevitable grim realization that you can't win. Victory or surrender.

 

Reality is eventually faced, when the mounting costs of death and destruction exceeds any hoped for victory.

 

A  "worlwide satisfactory conclusion" would be similar to Viet Nam, Korea, and Afghanistan, where you accept the inevitable, and leave the battlefield.

 

As Joe would say, Look, Man, gimmee a break. The secessionist Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk held a referendum, which Russia recognized but Ukraine and the West didn't.

 

So we have the Ukraine fighting for independence from Russia while facing it's own war against it's own States that are fight for THEIR independence, from the Ukraine.

 

An enforced diplomatic settlement is the only way to end this fiasco. The sooner the sofa sitting warmongers from afar in the West urge compromise, the better. It at least stops the carnage (for now).

 

Unneccessary deaths and destruction are their legacy.

 

 

4 hours ago, L00b said:

Bit more than that, but it would be a *very* good start indeed.

 

Get rid of Putin and every last one of his regime supporters, top to bottom.

Get Russia generally to set off on the same ‘cleaning up its act’ drive, which Ukraine embarked upon in the 2010s.

Get Russia to withdraw all forces from Ukraine (incl.Donbass & Crimea), Belarus, Transnistria, Syria, certain African countries + all the other older ones (Chechnya, Georgia, etc).

Get Ukraine as repaired as possible, as soon as possible, with a Marshall Plan-like 10 year support drive by ‘the West’ collectively, to turn into a socio-economic peer for Poland, Slovakia, etc.

Replace NATO by an EU-based defence pact with less reliance on US & UK.

Maintain the drive away from RU oil+gas, currently forced by geopolitics, towards sustainable energy generation (likely with top-up nuclear generation capacity), after conflict situation ends.

 

Off the top of my head, for now 😉

Yeah, we all know that!

 

But the questions is, what do we do when Putin doesn't agree with you?

Edited April 28, 2022 by trastrick

[L00b]

4 hours ago, trastrick said:

Yeah, we all know that!

 

But the questions is, what do we do when Putin doesn't agree with you?

Simple enough, we keep doing what we’re doing now.
 

Continue fulfilling Ukrainian orders for hardware whilever they’re ready and willing to fight, continue knocking Russian false flag ops on the head and feeding NATO-captured SIGINT/COMINT to the UA army for strategic & tactical advantage, continue reducing Russian oil/gas imports gradually down to nowt, continue isolating Russia down to North Korean levels.

 

Clearly, it’s working. Slowly, admittedly (nobody’s willing to trash their national economy over it - and those economies pay for UA help), but it is.

 

You only need to look at how shrill the propaganda is getting in Russia (“we’ll nuke the west; at least we’ll go to Paradise while they and us burn”) for evidence of the fact. No other explanation for reaching such levels of crass imbecility so soon (2 months from invasion start, lest we forget).

 

If Putin is still happy ruling over starving Russians in full NK-style autarky, and Russians are still happy/dumb enough to let him, more power to him, who the f cares. Rest of the world will move on. Minus the western ****-stirrers previously on his payroll, like Farage, Marine LePen, Bannon, GB News, Johnson and many of the Tory ultras, and so many more, which will be a very nice benefit for western democracies - beside Finland and Sweden hopping onto the NATO bandwagon.

 

Putin lost this war the day Ukrainians fought back and stalled him. Which, recalling Kyiv airport’s aborted invasion, was basically day one. He’s had plenty of off-ramps given him since then, and if the situation wasn’t already completely down to him to begin with, then it absolutely and utterly is by now.

 

With any luck, he’ll meet a Ceaucescu- or Ghaddafi-esque end, roughly grabbed, few kicks in the balls, lined up against a wall and shot. Be nice and cathartic for everyone. Still too quick for that turd, though.

Edited April 28, 2022 by L00b

[Jim117]

On 25/04/2022 at 00:13, The_DADDY said:

The US lags behind the competition as far as hypersonic missiles go.

 

Russia hasn’t even got enough smart stand off munitions to equip its jets. Their top tier aircraft are getting shot down because they have to fly below cloud level to drop conventional bombs which rely on line of sight. This puts them squarely in the kill zone of man portable missile systems which, if memory serves, are deadly up to about 12000 feet. The reason for this is that Putin has put all his old clod hopping mates from the KGB in charge of the munitions factories and missiles actually have a shelf life.

2 hours ago, L00b said:

Simple enough, we keep doing what we’re doing now.
 

Continue fulfilling Ukrainian orders for hardware whilever they’re ready and willing to fight, continue knocking Russian false flag ops on the head and feeding NATO-captured SIGINT/COMINT to the UA army for strategic & tactical advantage, continue reducing Russian oil/gas imports gradually down to nowt, continue isolating Russia down to North Korean levels.

 

Clearly, it’s working. Slowly, admittedly (nobody’s willing to trash their national economy over it - and those economies pay for UA help), but it is.

 

You only need to look at how shrill the propaganda is getting in Russia (“we’ll nuke the west; at least we’ll go to Paradise while they and us burn”) for evidence of the fact. No other explanation for reaching such levels of crass imbecility so soon (2 months from invasion start, lest we forget).

 

If Putin is still happy ruling over starving Russians in full NK-style autarky, and Russians are still happy/dumb enough to let him, more power to him, who the f cares. Rest of the world will move on. Minus the western ****-stirrers previously on his payroll, like Farage, Marine LePen, Bannon, GB News, Johnson and many of the Tory ultras, and so many more, which will be a very nice benefit for western democracies - beside Finland and Sweden hopping onto the NATO bandwagon.

 

Putin lost this war the day Ukrainians fought back and stalled him. Which, recalling Kyiv airport’s aborted invasion, was basically day one. He’s had plenty of off-ramps given him since then, and if the situation wasn’t already completely down to him to begin with, then it absolutely and utterly is by now.

 

With any luck, he’ll meet a Ceaucescu- or Ghaddafi-esque end, roughly grabbed, few kicks in the balls, lined up against a wall and shot. Be nice and cathartic for everyone. Still too quick for that turd, though.

Pretty much this 👍

[Guest makapaka]

Backing a nuclear power with a nationalist leader into a corner - and aggressive rhetoric from the likes of our donut foreign secretary for one - will ultimately get the reaction that was on the cards from the off.

[cuttsie]

We are now sending troops to  Eastern Europe , this is looking more and more like 1938 all over again , History always seems to repeat its self .

[Guest]

Russian TV, : "We are going to heaven".

 

[harvey19]

Why are we getting involved ?

Isn’t it more of an EU problem.

[Jim117]

44 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Why are we getting involved ?

Isn’t it more of an EU problem.

Because freedom and democracy don’t survive unless they are defended. Tragically we have another Hitler to deal with and need to stand with our friends and allies. The alternative is to allow the Russian psycho to invade whoever he likes in his pursuit to rebuild Mordor.

[L00b]

10 hours ago, makapaka said:

Backing a nuclear power with a nationalist leader into a corner - and aggressive rhetoric from the likes of our donut foreign secretary for one - will ultimately get the reaction that was on the cards from the off.

Putin is not in a corner. He can stop the Russian aggression in Ukraine any time that he wishes.

 

But if nobody ever checks his bluffs, he’ll just continue on, and on, and on, like he has for the last 20-odd years.

 

Care to share your alternative?