Ukraine: Invasion Imminent?

[harvey19]

The truth of the matters that no one except those in power know the reasons why this war started or who is involved in one way or another and why.

None of us know positive details of what is happening and how many casualties there are on either side.

 

 

[Annie Bynnol]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

...And, if they sought the military support of say, Russia, China, Cuba, or North Korea to ensure their independence? Russian and Chinese ships unloading missiles in Glasgow, Dublin and Cardiff?

 

Who is 'they'?

 

Regarding Dublin, the situation between the Governments of theses independent countries is legally much the same now as it was when Southern Ireland and Northern Ireland were given home rule in that are very agreements exist, fewer are actually written down. 'Understandings' have evolved. Historically no Anglo-Irish legislation was avoided or passed in Dublin or Westminster as it would upset somebody somewhere. There are still in existence some very strange 'understandings' which are too difficult unpick such as a walk on ticket that can still be obtained at Sheffield station for Dublin or Belfast that is cheaper than the fare to London, Edinburgh or Cardiff.

 

Regarding missiles, I am not sure that a tiny country with a tiny population and that has never been independent like -Wales, can be compared with the second largest and independent country in Europe by area and a population of 40 million. Neither could North Korean missiles warding off English tanks, naval ships and aircraft from crossing the border into Wales be ever seen as a realistic prospect.

[trastrick]

23 minutes ago, Hotmale 1954 said:

Fox News and The Hill.

Your early posts on this thread were          ........... there won't be a war.

Anti Biden. Anti Hunter Biden.

 The more contentious crap you posted was from  Fox and The Hill.

Nothing to do with the war, but all to demean Democrats, who haven't invaded Ukraine.

After Europe and the U.S. gave up Crimea, and the U.S. and Europe told the world they had no intention of joining the Ukrainians, in their fight over Russian "minor incursions", my solution was for Zelensky to face reality and let those self declared, "Independent Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk" join the Russian geopolitical sphere.

 

I believed then and I believe now that Zelenski should have come to a negotiated settlement with Russia, by force, if necessary, and I still do, to end the slaughter. I believe this will happen eventually if and when cooler heads prevail.

 

But who listens to SF posters?

 

Meanwhile the slaughter and destruction continue, while the U.S., the EU, Germany, Hungary and the others get their act together regarding the financing Putin's war, by bying Putin's Fossil Fuel.  This war could continue for "years", is the U.S. Official line.

 

I hear the EU have tabled a meeting for June, to "discuss it".

 

Meanwhile also, the U.S. is coming very close to a wider war, by providing the Ukraine with GPS targeting intelligence, which has resulted in the sinking of one, maybe two Russian warships.

 

A dangerous escalation, if ever there was one.

[trastrick]

37 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Who is 'they'?

 

Regarding Dublin, the situation between the Governments of theses independent countries is legally much the same now as it was when Southern Ireland and Northern Ireland were given home rule in that are very agreements exist, fewer are actually written down. 'Understandings' have evolved. Historically no Anglo-Irish legislation was avoided or passed in Dublin or Westminster as it would upset somebody somewhere. There are still in existence some very strange 'understandings' which are too difficult unpick such as a walk on ticket that can still be obtained at Sheffield station for Dublin or Belfast that is cheaper than the fare to London, Edinburgh or Cardiff.

 

Regarding missiles, I am not sure that a tiny country with a tiny population and that has never been independent like -Wales, can be compared with the second largest and independent country in Europe by area and a population of 40 million. Neither could North Korean missiles warding off English tanks, naval ships and aircraft from crossing the border into Wales be ever seen as a realistic prospect.

It's the principle of true democratic "independence" for an elected government to align itself with a foreign military power that I am talking about.

 

Not the likelyhood, or the rationality of the situation.

 

Wars are started by irrational people. The kind who bomb British pubs and shopping centers and attempt the assassination of British Prime Ministers Major, and Thatcher.

 

Wanna try again? 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by trastrick

[Annie Bynnol]

43 minutes ago, trastrick said:

It's the principle of true democratic "independence" for an elected government to align itself with a foreign military power that I am talking about.

 

Not the likelyhood, or the rationality of the situation.

 

Wars are started by irrational people. The kind who bomb British pubs and shopping centers and attempt the assassination of British Prime Ministers Major, and Thatcher.

 

Wanna try again? 

 

 

Sentence One-there is no "principle".

Sentence Two -is not a sentence.

Sentence Three- not always true and I think you are referring to a civil war not an invasion of an independent country.

Sentence Four- no. 

 

Whatever point you are trying to make in this post is lost on me, but as you are still promoting appeasement I can only point out that appeasement has not stopped the increasing number of "special" military exploits Putin has instigated.

 

[trastrick]

17 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

 

Sentence One-there is no "principle".

Sentence Two -is not a sentence.

Sentence Three- not always true and I think you are referring to a civil war not an invasion of an independent country.

Sentence Four- no. 

 

Whatever point you are trying to make in this post is lost on me, but as you are still promoting appeasement I can only point out that appeasement has not stopped the increasing number of "special" military exploits Putin has instigated.

 

I can see why it's lost on you.

 

There is indeed a principle.

 

It's what the poor Ukrainians are fighting for. And the what the West is is (half heartedly) supporting.

 

Namely, "the right of self determination of a democratic sovereign State".

 

If you can't see it, perhaps it's because you seem more interested in parsing sentences. A "forest and trees" thing.

 

As for your repeated charge that I am an "appeaser". That's a non starter.

 

The appeasement was by the West, when they allowed Putin to annex Ukrainian Crimea.

 

Again when the U.S. announced it would not  militarily oppose "minor incursions" into the  Donetsk and Luhansk areas of the Ukraine.

 

And, of course by NATO and the EU, who refuse to stop buying Putin's Oil and Gas, which is feeding Putin's military machine, thereby effectively financing Putin's war of attrition.

 

 

 

 

[trastrick]

21 hours ago, harvey19 said:

The truth of the matters that no one except those in power know the reasons why this war started or who is involved in one way or another and why.

None of us know positive details of what is happening and how many casualties there are on either side.

 

 

The reasons for the war are actually clear.

 

Russia will not allow a bordering State to become part of a military alliance (NATO) with the West.

 

Any more than the US would allow, Cuba, Canada or Mexico to join a Russian military alliance. (Or, as I pointed ouit in another post, England's Scotland, Ireland or Wales)

 

Each superpower has determined it's own "strategic area of interest" and any hostile incursion, (like NATO expansion) into it's backyard will not be tolerated.

 

This was understood by previous administrions, and the World was kept at relative peace during the Cold War.

 

The latest Western leadership have tossed out this "understanding" and poor Ukraine is the victim of this strategic move by NATO. Zelensky has apllied for NATO membership, and the head of the EU has said "they would be welcomed", and meeting are scheduled to be held to discuss their apllication.

 

It's actually the West that refuses to achnowledge the root cause of the conflict.

 

One  example being the refusal of Europe to end their dependence on Russian Oil and Gas, which is actually financing Putin's War Machine.

 

This of course causes confusion, 

 

But you are not alone, in wondering "why this war started or who is involved in one way or another and why"

 

The participants don't even know.

 

Witness this recent exchange when Biden sent his wife to the Ukraine to cheer them on.

 

AP News

 

"Her visit was to western Ukraine; Russia is concentrating its military power in eastern Ukraine, and she was not in harm’s way."

 

(It's not an all out war, it's a war of initimidation, which has cost Putin dearly for his strategic reluctance to carpet bomb and raze the country)

 

"At a bus station in the city that is now a 24-hour refugee processing center, Biden found herself in an extended conversation with a Ukrainian woman who said she struggles to explain the war to her three children because she cannot understand it herself.

 

“I cannot explain because I don’t know myself and I’m a teacher,” Victorie Kutocha, who had her arms around her 7-year-old daughter, Yulie, told Biden.

 

"At one point, Kutocha asked, “Why?” seeming to seek an explanation for Russia’s decision to invade Ukraine on Feb. 24.

 

"It’s so hard to understand,” the first lady replied."

 

So there you have it. If a Ukranian teacher doesn't understand the war, and the Fiirst Lady on a diplomatic mission, can't explain it to her. You can see why there's a lack of clarity about the whole fiasco.

 

It's simply a conflict between the Western Military Alliance, and Russia. A dangerous one that threatens the World order. A proxy war fought only by Ukraine.

 

The MSM "narrative" is that they are "winning", and teaching Putin a lesson in the bargain, 

 

The West will have to intervene militarily, or accept the Russian dominance. They have no other choice.

 

And the sooner they can bring themselves to face that reality, the sooner the death and destruction of Ukraine's unwinnable war against Russia will end!

 

China is watching closely, as they have designs on Taiwan, and after that, who knows?

 

As long as the West will not intervene, it's open season on those unfortunate people who happen to be in the "sphere of strategic interest" of  the totalitarians.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by trastrick

[Padders]

When we were at odds with Ireland, the IRA thought nothing of killing innocent civilians on British mainland...

Why can't Ukraine plant a few bombs in Moscow ?

[nightrider]

14 minutes ago, Padders said:

When we were at odds with Ireland, the IRA thought nothing of killing innocent civilians on British mainland...

Why can't Ukraine plant a few bombs in Moscow ?

this has happened. Many oil refineries and other infrastructure have been blown up in the last month. No one has claimed responsibility.

[RJRB]

13 minutes ago, Padders said:

When we were at odds with Ireland, the IRA thought nothing of killing innocent civilians on British mainland...

Why can't Ukraine plant a few bombs in Moscow ?

It’s more likely that Putin will arrange this and blame Ukraine.

He has previous