trastrick Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 13 hours ago, melthebell said: what i understand those doing raids in Russia were actually Russians against Putin, NOT Polish In war, the truth is often difficult to confirm. But here's The Guardian/New York Times opinion. They say, "that the conclusion of US intelligence agencies was the strikes originated with the Ukrainian intelligence services, though they were less certain about proof that orders for those strikes had originated from the top of the Ukrainian government." Nothing there about "Russians against Putin". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, trastrick said: In war, the truth is often difficult to confirm. But here's The Guardian/New York Times opinion. They say, "that the conclusion of US intelligence agencies was the strikes originated with the Ukrainian intelligence services, though they were less certain about proof that orders for those strikes had originated from the top of the Ukrainian government." Nothing there about "Russians against Putin". We can argue about this all day, but ive got work soon so i aint. Most media you see, hear, read all say The Russian Volunteer Corps and Freedom of Russia Legion claimed responsibility for the attacks https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/who-are-armed-fighters-russias-belgorod-region-2023-06-05/ explains who they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 In truth, nobody knows, including press, so everybody's making it up as they go along and trying to sound knowlegdable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chekhov Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, trastrick said: In war, the truth is often difficult to confirm. But here's The Guardian/New York Times opinion. They say, "that the conclusion of US intelligence agencies was the strikes originated with the Ukrainian intelligence services, though they were less certain about proof that orders for those strikes had originated from the top of the Ukrainian government." Nothing there about "Russians against Putin". Trastrick, I recommend you read "Killer in the Kremlin" by John Sweeney. I think you will change your mind about the Russian state in general and Putin in particular. He is a very very nasty piece of work who I would not trust an inch (or even a thou). Edited June 22, 2023 by Chekhov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trastrick Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Chekhov said: Trastrick, I recommend you read "Killer in the Kremlin" by John Sweeney. I think you will change your mind about the Russian state in general and Putin in particular. He is a very very nasty piece of work who I would not trust an inch (or even a thou). Why would I change my mind? Putin is a Totalitarian Dictator, always a hungry Bear, who the West fed with Crimea, then he came back for more! Totalitarians and Bears do what Totalitarians and Bears always do! He came up through the U.S.S.R.'s KGB jungle. I just take issue with the socialist "narrative" that he is a 'fascist". I think he fits in well, with his like minded supporters of the War on Ukraine, China, North Korea, Cuba, South Africa (ANC), Belorus, Venezuela, and Nicaragua. Then there's, and Iran, Syria, Eritrea and Mali. On the sidelines watching are India, Pakistan, and Iraq! The "narrative" that the World is supporting Ukraine against Russia, is not quite accurate! Likewise the "narrative" that the Ukraine is "winning". Edited June 23, 2023 by trastrick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 No-one is winning right now, the Russian defences are holding up against this renewed Ukrainian counter-offensive, just like the Ukrainian defences held against the last Russian offensive. No-one wants to say it, but a stalemate is looking likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padders Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, geared said: No-one is winning right now, the Russian defences are holding up against this renewed Ukrainian counter-offensive, just like the Ukrainian defences held against the last Russian offensive. No-one wants to say it, but a stalemate is looking likely. Looks like it's going to a Penalty Shootout then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) Let's not get to the bloody end just yet, there's still some time to enjoy the Russian propaganda. This yesterday was a beaut, a strike on the Chonhar Bridge which was claimed by Russia to be by a Stormshadow missile. I'm not a military expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I do know that missile carries a near 1000lb explosive warhead. The hole is a touch small for a bomb that big, I don't think there'd be much bridge left if it had been hit by a big bomb. Edited June 23, 2023 by geared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 23 minutes ago, geared said: Let's not get to the bloody end just yet, there's still some time to enjoy the Russian propaganda. This yesterday was a beaut, a strike on the Chonhar Bridge which was claimed by Russia to be by a Stormshadow missile. I'm not a military expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I do know that missile carries a near 1000lb explosive warhead. The hole is a touch small for a bomb that big, I don't think there'd be much bridge left if it had been hit by a big bomb. Tis but a fleshwound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padders Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, melthebell said: Tis but a fleshwound Got bigger potholes here in Sheffield Mel......... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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