Ukraine: Invasion Imminent?

[trastrick]

4 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

And Daddy's answer is what  ?????????  hand it all to Putin and run away  ?????????

coward.

 

My Narrative:

 

And trastricks  answer is ????????    Give it all to Putin and run away.  ?????????

You are forgetting that every one of the partitions you quote DID NOT WORK

and neither do armchair cowards ways

A coward is someone who who hurls abuse at the enemy from afar, but refuses to get his own manicured hands dirty. Won't even give the Ukrainian cannon fodder the weapons they need to defeat Russia, lest Putin gets angry at them too! 

 

As far partition not working, the evidence is clear, all out wars in the above examples, have been eliminated, or reduced to a few cross-border skirmishes. Matter of fact, the biggest partition in history, was when the West and the USSR divided Europe up between them with a big Iron Curtain. Kept the peace for 70 years or so.

 

Then along comes Obama/Biden/Hillary and we have another Cold War and a Hot European War,

 

Western self appointed "elites" in Davos crying for "The New Liberal World Order" aka "Regime Change".

 

NATO attempting to bring their Nuclear Military Capability to Russia's very doorstep.,

 

And a unhinged Biden, Leader of the Free World, screaming, "For God's Sake, this man (Putin) can not remain in power"!

 

After seeing the West's recent attempts at "Regime Change" in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Ethiopia, Angola, Chile Afghanistan, Syria,  Cuba, what does any self respecting Totalitarian Dictator do?

 

As night follows day, He does what any self respecting Totalitarian Dictator does. He acts to protect what he feels his own security requires. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by trastrick

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, trastrick said:

 

After seeing the West's recent attempts at "Regime Change" in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Ethiopia, Angola, Chile Afghanistan, Syria,  Cuba, what does any self respecting Totalitarian Dictator do?

 

As night follows day, He does what any self respecting Totalitarian Dictator does. He acts to protect what he feels his own security requires. 

 

So you want to bow down to this  "Totalitarian Dictator"     Let him have what he wants and then, when he comes back,   as he will,   let him have what he wants again ?

I've complained for years about the West's regime change attempts but that does not give Putin the right to do as he pleases.

If Putin was the kind of man you could negotiate with,  then it would be worth a try but he will keep taking  as long as others keep giving.

You are trying to press the "panic and give up" button.  Do you think he's mad enough to go nuclear,  knowing that the Russian people will perish along with his enemies ?   I don't  

You stand up to dictators or they take everything.   Yours is the cowards way.

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Organgrinder

[trastrick]

30 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

So you want to bow down to this  "Totalitarian Dictator"     Let him have what he wants and then, when he comes back,   as he will,   let him have what he wants again ?

I've complained for years about the West's regime change attempts but that does not give Putin the right to do as he pleases.

If Putin was the kind of man you could negotiate with,  then it would be worth a try but he will keep taking  as long as others keep giving.

You are trying to press the "panic and give up" button.  Do you think he's mad enough to go nuclear,  knowing that the Russian people will perish along with his enemies ?   I don't  

You stand up to dictators or they take everything.   Yours is the cowards way.

 

A few posts ago you were claiming to be a pacifist? 

 

I happen to believe that lives are precious, even those in far off lands that nobody could identify on a blank map!

 

To see them wasted as cannon fodder in a dispute between incompetent egocentric Western politicians and Totalitarian Dictators, doesn't sit well with me. I'm for an enforced (UN) cease fire NOW and have been since it all started.

 

(That Davos German guy Klaus Schwab, with his dreams of a "New Liberal World Order" dreams, sounds a lot like another Third Reicher who had a dream).

 

Hopefully we'll get to see how this movie ends.

 

But we've seen it before, as recently as last year in Afghanistan. As usual the politicians, and the arms dealers get rich, and, as usual the people take it up their assets. They get no say, in the matter!

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by trastrick

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, trastrick said:

A few posts ago you were claiming to be a pacifist? 

I am a pacifist who would never declare war but,  would fight to the death to defend me and mine

I happen to believe that lives are precious, even those in far off lands that nobody could identify on a blank map!

I also believe that lives are precious

To see them wasted as cannon fodder in a dispute between incompetent egocentric Western politicians and Totalitarian Dictators, doesn't sit well with me. I'm for an enforced (UN) cease fire NOW and have been since it all started.

When attacked,  a nation has to defend itself and if you want to describe it's  fighters as cannon fodder, that's up to you.

Were our troops cannon fodder in WW2 and would you have surrendered and let Hitler take the world ?

 

(That Davos German guy Klaus Schwab, with his dreams of a "New Liberal World Order" dreams, sounds a lot like another Third Reicher who had a dream).

I'm not interested in your opinion of individuals in an attempt to stray away from the subject.  You have many dreams yourself.

Hopefully we'll get to see how this movie ends.

Not if we appease Putin.  We know how it will end.

But we've seen it before, as recently as last year in Afghanistan. As usual the politicians, and the arms dealers get rich, and, as usual the people take it up their assets. They get no say, in the matter!

 

Another of your  sidetrack comments.  It's inevitable that someone always get rich in wars.  Not much we can  do about that  except tax them,  It doesn't mean lay down your arms.

Someone always gets rich when we eat,  but would you suggest we stop eating ????????????????   

I still say that yours is the cowardly option which makes slaves and death camp occupants of us all.   Putin would do what Hitler did.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Organgrinder

[trastrick]

 

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

I am a pacifist who would never declare war but,  would fight to the death to defend me and mine

A pacifist is someone who is opposed to violence to settle disputes.

 

Sometimes it is necessary to "declare War" to take on the enemy, before they come up your street!   That's what the Allies did in WW1 and WW2.

 

You would never do that. OK.

 

I see you have your own definition of "pacifism".

 

That's our Mr, Inconsistency, always staking claim to both sides of any issue, to be on the safe side of any outcome! 

 

 

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

Putin would do what Hitler did.

A strawman, Putin is NOT invading Britain!  Nor my country!

 

If you believe he intends to, , then feel free to go round up your able bodied friends and relatives, and call them cowards if they don't go to fight to the last man in the Ukraine, before he starts coming up your street!

 

The geopolitical schism, between Western Democracy and its enemies in the rest of the tin pot World, must be faced with firmness and will. At at place and point in time of our choosing, with the strategy and the Leaders, and the will to make it happen.

 

Not on the brief timetable of a Zelenski

 

It will not be solved by a rag tag army of brave Ukrainians operating without the manpower, or the weapons they need to win!

 

That War was lost when the West Obama/Biden/Hillary meekly handed Ukraine's Crimea to Putin, as a "minor incursion", not worth going to war over.

 

Didn't hear much ado from the Left about that major appeasement! 

 

So now Putin occupies the Republic of Crimea, the Peoples Republic of Luhansk, and the People's Republic of  Donetsk.

 

The West will have to get up off their assets to remove him, if that's the plan. Zelensky can't do it alone.

 

So what's you solution and end game?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by trastrick

[The_DADDY]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

I am a pacifist who would never declare war but would fight to the death to defend me and mine.....

Snipped 

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[trastrick]

6 minutes ago, The_DADDY said:

🤣🤣🤣

 

Our Mr Inconsistency  covers all bases!

 

There will always be a post that he can point to, and say "what I said was......"

 

Not the kind of fellow you would want to be in trench with! 

 

 

[trastrick]

2 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

I've complained for years about the West's regime change attempts but that does not give Putin the right to do as he pleases.

Haven't seen much of that here! 

 

Care to point out a post, from those enlightened years?

 

Do  you really expect that a Totalitarian Dictator will be more respectful of Sovereign Rights, than the Western "New Liberal World Order" folks hell bent on Regime Change all over the World, for the past 30 years, or so,

 

Sounds like a military version of the Left's "rules for thee, but not for me"! 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, trastrick said:

 

A pacifist is someone who is opposed to violence to settle disputes.

WIKIPEDIA:  Some pacifists follow principles of nonviolence, believing that nonviolent action is morally superior and/or most effective. Some however, support physical violence for emergency defence of self or others. 

Sometimes it is necessary to "declare War" to take on the enemy, before they come up your street!   That's what the Allies did in WW1 and WW2.

 

You would never do that. OK.

I personally wouldn't but I will not be the one in charge   -   I am just a bloke on Sheffield forum.

I see you have your own definition of "pacifism".

Look at Wikipedia:  Call it what you like and so will I.  I have explained my stance and don't believe  in making war unless attacked.  If attacked,  then I will fight with every means possible as the Ukranians are doing now.

That's our Mr, Inconsistency, always staking claim to both sides of any issue, to be on the safe side of any outcome! 

Your daft remarks don't bother me in the least. It's a favourite ploy of yours to try to trade on the meaning of words when you run out of argument.

 

A strawman, Putin is NOT invading Britain!  Nor my country!

You have no idea whatsoever what Putin will do,  any more than I do, or anyone else.

 

I you believe he intends to, , then feel free to go round up your able bodied friends and relatives, and call them cowards if they don't go to fight to the last man in the Ukraine., before he starts coming up your street!

It doesn't matter what I believe he intends to do.  I cannot take the country to war.  Only our government can do that.  Another indication of the stupid comments you make.

 

The geopolitical schism, between Western Democracy and its enemies in the rest of the tin pot World, must be faced with firmness and will. At at point of our choosing, with the strategy and the Leaders, and the will to make it happen.

It would seem that your idea of firmness is giving him chunks of  Ukraine and running away.  You haven't said what the point of our choosing should be.  You mean after you've surrendered ?

 

It will not be solved by a rag tag army of brave Ukrainians operating without the manpower, or the weapons they need to win!

It will also not be solved by a coward  on a far off island talking about surrendering and let the Russians do what they like.

 

That War was lost when the West Obama/Biden/Hillary meekly handed Ukraine's Crimea to Putin, as a "minor incursion", not worth going to war over.

I have criticised  the West allowing Putin to take Crimea.  I have also criticised Obama's red line unfulfilled warning in Syria.  Despite this,  you still want to hand over more spoils to Putin because you're afraid.

Didn't hear much ado from the Left about that major appeasement! 

Where were you listening, I can't remember us talking about it but,  I don't speak for the left,  I speak for me.   We are also not discussing left versus right politics.

So now Putin occupies the Republic of Crimea, the Peoples Republic of Luhansk, and the People's Republic of  Donetsk.

And you would give him some more and run away and pretend that's not cowardly.

The West will have to get up off their assets to remove him, if that's the plan. Zelensky can't do it alone.

That's another silly comment from you    The West will decide without you what to do.  The West can't remove him anyway.  Only the Russian nation can do that.  

 

So what's you solution and end game?

Carry on supporting a free nation to stay a free nation and remind Putin that a tactical nuclear strike would be rewarded by a tactical nuclear strike in return..

By the way,  it isn't the partitions which have kept the peace for 70 years  ( they haven't anyway )  it's the nukes, which up until now,  have prevented a third world war..

A lot of stupid  politicians on both sides have led to this situation but that's water under the bridge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, The_DADDY said:

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WIKIPEDIA:  Some pacifists follow principles of nonviolence, believing that nonviolent action is morally superior and/or most effective. Some however, support physical violence for emergency defence of self or others. 

31 minutes ago, trastrick said:

 

Our Mr Inconsistency  covers all bases!

 

There will always be a post that he can point to, and say "what I said was......"

 

Not the kind of fellow you would want to be in trench with! 

 

 

You will never share a trench with anyone because you and your mate believe in surrendering

WIKIPEDIA:  Some pacifists follow principles of nonviolence, believing that nonviolent action is morally superior and/or most effective. Some however, support physical violence for emergency defence of self or others. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, trastrick said:

Haven't seen much of that here! 

You obviously haven't looked then or you have a bad memory.

Care to point out a post, from those enlightened years?

Find it

Do  you really expect that a Totalitarian Dictator will be more respectful of Sovereign Rights, than the Western "New Liberal World Order" folks hell bent on Regime Change all over the World, for the past 30 years, or so,

I don't expect anything   -   I see what happens and respond accordingly.   Not by surrendering though.

Sounds like a military version of the Left's "rules for thee, but not for me"! 

Have you been in the military and has your mate ?     Thought not