Ukraine: Invasion Imminent?

[trastrick]

(Disclaimer)

 

I only have so much time for this stuff, before I have leave and get on with a real life, so I can't wait forever, and be accused of "running away".

 

A suggestion:

 

Some groups critics are very well coordinated indeed,

 

So  how about one response drafted by all of yer?

 

To me, all you anonymous Walter Mittys are all interchangeable anyway, (except for our Mr Justin Case) 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by trastrick

[RJRB]

@trastrick

Could you edit that down to a form that addresses the question posed as to how you get opposing forces to the negotiating table without going through the usual process of attritional and damaging conflict.

Surely understanding the brief and concise action plans based on realism were  important factors when you were employed as a management consultant.

 

 

[trastrick]

4 minutes ago, RJRB said:

@trastrick

Could you edit that down to a form that addresses the question posed as to how you get opposing forces to the negotiating table without going through the usual process of attritional and damaging conflict.

Surely understanding the brief and concise action plans based on realism were  important factors when you were employed as a management consultant.

 

 

You're bigger fool than I thought!

 

I got PAID for that job! 

 

You're all going to pee all over it anyway!

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by trastrick

[RJRB]

9 minutes ago, trastrick said:

You're bigger fool than I thought!

 

I got PAID for that job! 

 

That is no proof of anything......plenty of well paid fools available.Some still employed and some sensibly retired.

Did you get paid by the word count?

Edited July 16, 2023 by RJRB

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, trastrick said:

 

Orgy, our Master of Inconsistency, who alway manages to straddle both sides of every issue (Just in case)   claims:

Prove my inconsistency.  I am a pacifist who would never attack another nation but would fight defend my country, if it were attacked,  with all means possible.

So I would only fight if attacked  which is what Ukraine is doing  at the present time.

 

"But I,  and some others,  don't take much notice of what you say".

Explain why we should, especially when you take the minority stance on every subject whether it's Ukraine, Covid,  Climate Change   etc.   and you believe  all the conspiracy theories which abound.

 

"This looks like being a very interesting answer from trastrick.  I'm waiting with bated breath".

You may have to wait a little longer!

 

That is exactly what I expected because I knew that you didn't have the faintest idea how to enforce a ceasefire or how to enforce negotiations.

As for the rest,  I don't believe that you have ever been in management at all.  I do know that you like to do a lot of bragging and showing off.

If you had, by some miracle been in management,  How does that help you to FORCE Russia & Ukraine to ceasefire.   That's just more building of your own perceived self importance.

 You proposed a solution so tell us how you,   FORCE   Russia and  Ukraine,   to cease fire and get to the negotiating table.

 

I think you're the equivalent of the DR's beach bum and, whether I'm right or wrong,  your politics are hopeless and built on hopes and dreams. Try the real world for a change. 

Putin would have you for breakfast  and Zelenski would tell you to FO.

 

The rest of the rubbish you posted is not worth answering.

 

26 minutes ago, trastrick said:

You're bigger fool than I thought!

 

I got PAID for that job! 

 

You're all going to pee all over it anyway!

 

That's typical trastrick who  cannot answer a question and insults others after complaining of people insulting him.

HOW DO YOU FORCE THEM TO CEASEFIRE AND NEGOTIATE ?

[trastrick]

21 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

The rest of the rubbish you posted is not worth answering.

Ok, then you too, Justin! 

 

My! How quick we went from "waiting with bated breath" to "rubbish".

 

Are you ok?

 

But I've offered you a wager to validate and verify my CV.

 

But you don't have the gonads to to take me up on my offer!

 

It still stands, but now we have a tag team circle jerk going here, on I'm raising my price! 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by trastrick

[Magilla]

44 minutes ago, trastrick said:

My! How quick we went from "waiting with bated breath" to "rubbish".

That's what happens when you post a load of nonsensical waffle that rubbishes every other claim you've made!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, trastrick said:

Ok, then you too, Justin! 

Who the hell is Justin ? only Justin I've heard of is Chekhov. 

My! How quick we went from "waiting with bated breath" to "rubbish".

Rubbish,  because you never answered how you are going to force Russia & Ukraine to ceasfire and come to the negotiating table.

Are you ok?

 

But I've offered you a wager to validate and verify my CV.

Why should I waste me time making wagers with you ?  I believe you're a liar and  your CV would be lies too.

But you don't have the gonads to to take me up on my offer!

Don't need any balls for you.

It still stands, but now we have a tag team circle jerk going here, on I'm raising my price! 

Talking infantile rubbish again.

You get Russia & Ukraine together with your magical solution, you silly man.

 

[altus]

So you don't have a solution to forcing Russia to ceasefire and attend settlement negotiations or to get them to abide by the results of such a settlement.

 

8 hours ago, trastrick said:

Snipped chaff...

 

 

I believe that both sides realize, as the body count, destruction and atrocities of war pile up without end, that an eventual negotiated settlement is the only way out. I also believe that the current war is the historically normal strategy, in disputed territory, for the belligerents to gain and control as much territory as they can, before that inevitable day comes to pass.

 

(Here I will add U,N, enforced Partition, and U.N. Supervised elections in the disputed Regions)

 

Possession and control is a powerful negotiating tool when it comes to a final settlement.

How do you think your suggestion to stop supplying Ukraine with weapons to force them round the negotiating table will affect that? Would any General, upon being told their enemy can no longer get weapons, say

• Let's have a ceasefire and get round the negotiation table to settle this peacefully.

or

• Let's press forward our advantage over their weakness.

Which do you think Russia would do?

 

Quote

Co-existence means trade and cultural exchanges that are more effective in changing hearts and minds, than hurling names, and bombs at each other.

It's been pointed out to you multiple times that the West has already tried that with Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. Putin rejected it because it might make his citizens realise that they'd have better lives if they didn't live in his kleptocracy.

[trastrick]

12 hours ago, altus said:

Would any General, upon being told their enemy can no longer get weapons, say

• Let's have a ceasefire and get round the negotiation table to settle this peacefully.

That's not their job!

 

In a democracy, the "Generals" don't dictate Foreign Policy!

 

Their job is to kill people and destroy things.

 

12 hours ago, altus said:

Let's have a ceasefire and get round the negotiation table to settle this peacefully.

That's the job of "elected" government leaders. It's called diplomacy.

 

The West's only choices against Totalitarianism, are victory, defeat, or stalemate.

 

In 2014, they chose defeat when Putin took over Crimea. No effort to arm the Ukraine.

 

In 2022, when Putin again invaded Ukraine, they didn't choose victory, or defeat, . They decided instead to limit the military resources of the Ukraine to strictly defensive weapons, and hope that either Zelensky could militarily expel them, and/or that Putin's Regime would collapse, if enough "sanctions"were enacted to weaken Putin's hold on his country.

 

But, if course not ALL available sanctions: the NATO countries were and are, still dependent of Putin's Oil and Gas products.

 

After a year and a half of this Foreign Policy, the Russians still have an iron grip on parts of the Ukraine they claim belong to Russia.

 

So the situation has developed into a stalemate, which the West's "generals", and the politicians both concede, could go on for years.

 

At some point in historical situations like this, with the slaughter and destruction, and the bodies piling up, the public's perception of just who is "winning" will change.

 

As it did with attempts at "Regime Change" in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Ethiopia, Angola, Chile Afghanistan, Syria,  Cuba, where the West's enemies stood fast, and the West folded and ran.

 

I think that is starting (belatedly) to become evident to all, but a few of the warmonger zealots, who have turned this war onto a personal ego trip, against an individual "Great Satan", Putin, rather than see it as just another controversial move, in the ongoing World geopolitical chess game, between East and West, capitalism against communism, and Western Cultural values against Eastern cultural values.

 

Long past time to make a deal and stop the needless killing of innocents.

 

For what, exactly? A question that was put to "doctor" Jill Biden on her visit to the Ukraine.

 

PBS

 

"Biden met and offered support to Ukrainian mothers in Slovakia who have been displaced by Russia’s war. She assured them that the “hearts of the American people” are behind them.

 

"At a bus station in the city that is now a 24-hour refugee processing center, Biden found herself in an extended conversation with a Ukrainian woman who said she struggles to explain the war to her three children because she cannot understand it herself.

 

“I cannot explain because I don’t know myself and I’m a teacher,” Victorie Kutocha, who had her arms around her 7-year-old daughter, Yulie, told Biden.

 

At one point, Kutocha asked, “Why?” seeming to seek an explanation for Russia’s decision to invade Ukraine on Feb. 24.

 

’It’s so hard to understand,” the first lady replied.

 

So the Ukraine mother, can't understand why there is war, and the wife of the Leader of the Free World, can't explain it to her either".

 

How many more Ukrainian citizens are wondering the same thing?

 

Telling her to suck it up, because "Putin's a bad guy" may play well on these threads, but in the outside world, it's not quite that easy! There are lots of "bad guys" in the world, they come and go, Putin won't be the last.

 

Getting rid of one "bad guy" doesn't solve the world's problems. It can have the opposite effect.

 

Getting rid of Bush, led to Crimea, and getting rid of Trump, led to economic chaos, France burning,  another European War!

Edited July 17, 2023 by trastrick