Ukraine: Invasion Imminent?

[crazyhorse]

And to all those going out on the lash this weekend...

...skip the vodka...drink English Ale.

 

A token gesture I know, but if enough people do it, someone in Russia may lost out a little and start moaning to their pet politician about it.

That may help the snowball to start rolling down the hill.

 

Wake up and understand the connection between what you buy and where the money you pay for it ultimately ends up...

...in effect you the vodka drinker are partially paying for some cruise missile to take out some poor Ukrainian pensioner.

 

Don't play their game...it is the only weapon we as the public can personally wield.

Just remember...the more people earn from something, the more vulnerable it makes them, when people decide to stop playing their game.

Hit them where it hurts.

 

[altus]

32 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said:

All they had to do was promise Ukraine wouldn't be invited to join NATO. Why anyone would to join I don't know. The organisation (after the cold war) has been a disaster. Only a few countries pay the 2%. One of the funniest things Trump ever said was when EU member states who weren't paying the 2% complained about Trumps request. He said something like, not just in future but you all have to pay the arrears as well. It was about $500b.

 

They're still not paying and the US would be better out. They're basically an unpaid security guard for Europe.

None of the former soviet states asked[1] to join NATO until after Putin invaded one of them. Since then Putin has invaded other former soviet states, but not any of the ones who joined NATO. Can you really not see why they would want to join NATO?

 

 

[1] Asked to, not were invited to.

[Waldo]

26 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

As there was no referendum or vote by the people on the matter its wrong to say it was against the will of the vast majority of people.

 

In our democracy we elect our MPs and give them the right to act on our behalf and that is what they do. Just because some may not like that makes no difference.

Point 1. Yes, I accept, I have no factual evidence to support my statement (majority of UK public against Iraq war), I strongly suspect it is accurate though.

 

Point 2. I understand how our democratic process works. Some may not like it. I believe it’s important to understand a system’s flaws, and to change or replace with an improved better system (my personal ideal is that any government should be acting for the benefit of its citizens, rather than be a vehicle for the enrichment and empowerment of corrupt government officials and leaders). So yeah, improve, evolve, change to that end, rather than just fatefully accept it, warts and all, if that’s what you’re suggesting?

 

Of course, change doesn’t happen overnight…

Edited February 24, 2022 by Waldo

[altus]

26 minutes ago, crazyhorse said:

Could there be a Russian Spring coming?

Like the Arab Spring?

I hope not, given how that largely turned out. 😮

 

I appreciate what you meant though.

[crazyhorse]

1 minute ago, altus said:

None of the former soviet states asked[1] to join NATO until after Putin invaded one of them. Since then Putin has invaded other former soviet states, but not any of the ones who joined NATO. Can you really not see why they would want to join NATO?

 

 

[1] Asked to, not were invited to.

Well said...NATO Article 5 (Collective Defence) keeps him from directly attacking a NATO member.

 

[SheffieldBricky]

1 minute ago, altus said:

None of the former soviet states asked[1] to join NATO until after Putin invaded one of them. Since then Putin has invaded other former soviet states, but not any of the ones who joined NATO. Can you really not see why they would want to join NATO?

 

 

[1] Asked to, not were invited to.

 

Smart. Let's have a World War.

 

How many countries have we invaded since WW2. 

 

Putin won't allow missiles 5 minutes away from their capital and neither would  we. Imagine Scotland voting for independence and then they form close links with Russia and decide to base rockets in Edinburgh. 

[crazyhorse]

3 minutes ago, altus said:

I hope not, given how that largely turned out. 😮

 

I appreciate what you meant though.

Why not a popular uprising?

Should the Russian people live in poverty because their masters have grown used to their opulent lifestyles?

If a revolution is required to remove them from power...the Russian people (or any other people in a similar situation with their Government) should have that right when all other channels have failed (which they have in Russia).

 

You probably don't like the idea because you as a Westerner associate it with Western adventurism in Libya.

 

If you asked a Libyan at that time, they may have had a different view, living under a corrupt tyrant who kept them down.

[SheffieldBricky]

'Perhaps the EU should not have outsourced its energy policy to a Nordic teenager, and covered up for that ineffective policy by outsourcing its energy supply to the dictator of Russia.'

 

Ben Shapiro

 

True dat.

1 minute ago, crazyhorse said:

You probably don't like the idea because you as a Westerner associate it with Western adventurism in Libya.

 

If you asked a Libyan at that time, they may have had a different view, living under a corrupt tyrant who kept them down.

 

They're buying and selling slaves now in Libya.

[altus]

6 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said:

 

Smart. Let's have a World War.

 

How many countries have we invaded since WW2. 

 

Putin won't allow missiles 5 minutes away from their capital and neither would  we. Imagine Scotland voting for independence and then they form close links with Russia and decide to base rockets in Edinburgh. 

If Putin didn't want his neighbours to join NATO he shouldn't invaded Georgia and so frightening them into doing to. When Scotland votes for independence they will have nothing to do with Putin's Russian kleptocracy. Incidentally, distancing themselves from Putin's Russian kleptocracy is why so many former soviet states are (or want to be) members of the EU.

[crazyhorse]

7 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said:

 

Smart. Let's have a World War.

 

How many countries have we invaded since WW2. 

 

Putin won't allow missiles 5 minutes away from their capital and neither would  we. Imagine Scotland voting for independence and then they form close links with Russia and decide to base rockets in Edinburgh. 

Nobody wants a World War (probably not even Putin)...NATO and the US, UK and French nuclear deterrent do just that...deter him from walking all over those countries.

They have prevented a deliberate nuclear war since the Russians built their first atomic bomb.

I say deliberate, as (both sides) have come very close to accidently starting one over the years...usually due to malfunctioning sensors or untested computer code which as someone who works in IT is the bit I have always worried about.

 

Ukraine probably now regrets agreeing to unilaterally give up their stockpile now...I don't think Putin would have done this if they hadn't.

 

And if you think we don't allow Russian missiles 5 minutes (flight time) from our capital, you are mistaken.

Russian ballistic missile submarines constantly sail through the Greenland, Iceland, UK Gap.

They are always testing our defences (as I hope we do as well in response).

 

I used to support CND (who wouldn't in their youth)...but not now.

I see the Russian leader for who he is.

To think that Jeremy C actively wanted to disarm unilaterally and thought he could get elected is naive.

 

Multilateral verified disarmament yes...unilateral disarmament no...not with these kinds of idiots about.