melthebell Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, SheffieldBricky said: You obviously don't know me. Go back to bed Mel or to the I'm bored thread. ...in other words...you got me two can play at that game, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, crazyhorse said: You need to look beyond what you are told at the Stop The War demo or in the Socialist Review and make up your own mind. I think Bricky's getting his news from rt.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, melthebell said: ...in other words...you got me two can play at that game, lol Dont go Mel , hes lost the debate and he knows it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dromedary Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 18 minutes ago, altus said: What would have stopped Putin developing the opinion that Ukraine shouldn't exists as country separate from Russia? He wants to rebuild the Russian Empire, not just the Soviet Union. I don't think so as this has always been about security for Russia. If rebuilding the Russian Empire was his goal then he has also has many other ex-russian countries to invade as well but they are not strategically placed to worry about. Russia don't want a close neighbour part of NATO and they don't want it to be part of the EU either. The EU have also made this situation worse by encouraging Ukraine to join the EU and Ukraine were happy to do just that, the reasons behind that are obvious. What is now going to happen is that the EU will suffer badly for that as the sanctions imposed by all will severely affect them as well as Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said: You obviously don't know me. No I don't...which is why I am calmly responding to your statements. I am just reading between the lines of what you say and forming my opinion from that. Obviously you have a different view to me...and I totally accept that. I wouldn't like it however, if you felt your view was so correct, that you simply invaded my house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dromedary said: I don't think so as this has always been about security for Russia. If rebuilding the Russian Empire was his goal then he has also has many other ex-russian countries to invade as well but they are not strategically placed to worry about. Russia don't want a close neighbour part of NATO and they don't want it to be part of the EU either. The EU have also made this situation worse by encouraging Ukraine to join the EU and Ukraine were happy to do just that, the reasons behind that are obvious. What is now going to happen is that the EU will suffer badly for that as the sanctions imposed by all will severely affect them as well as Russia. I appreciate that Russia does have a siege mentality when it comes to fear of invasion. It has been invaded many times before...and that sensitivity to it's security has caused tense situations, until recognised by the West in the 1980s. What Russia really does not want in Ukraine is not so much NATO perhaps...but more it does not want a successful, liberal, relatively free nation on it's doorstep. This would obviously start Russians wondering why they couldn't have the same...and why THEIR government keeps them down. And that would be a direct threat to his rule. Edited February 24, 2022 by crazyhorse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheffieldBricky Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, altus said: No, it was for ballistic missiles launched from Russia. You said "I don't know how many times it has to be said that a country wouldn't allow it's biggest enemy to move missiles with 5 minutes of their capital. No country would allow it, it's virtually surrendering." That's already 5 minutes from our capital. Across a border doesn't matter when thousands of miles is your 5 minutes away. Putin said it would take 8 minutes, but 5 in the near future when NATO acquires hypersonic missiles. They didn't have hypersonic missiles back then. The issue is the Russian Navy as well which would be in easy striking distance. And ground troops would be easily deployed. Maybe he meant an attack that was launched could defeat Russia. Back in the USSR days it would have been tit for tat. And there was more chance of them avoiding detection in time. 15 minutes ago, crazyhorse said: It is nobodies "buffer zone". It is an independent country that wants to make it's own decisions. Are you still playing the "Great Game"? These are not your nations to carve up for your "sphere of influence"...nor are they ours. We are supposed to be living in a Post-Colonial world these days...did you not get the memo? Okay, you join up and fight them. 13 minutes ago, hackey lad said: Dont go Mel , hes lost the debate and he knows it You fancy him, you do. 14 minutes ago, altus said: I think Bricky's getting his news from rt.com. Never watch it. I used to a long time ago. I used to watch Max (somebody) who did a very entertaining finance show. He was virtually begging viewers to buy crypto because one day it would be massive. I thought about it but never did. If I'd invested 100 quid I'd be very rich now. I guess he's a multi millionaire. Edited February 24, 2022 by SheffieldBricky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dromedary Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, crazyhorse said: What Russia really does not want in Ukraine is not so much NATO perhaps...but more it does not want a successful, liberal, relatively free nation on it's doorstep. This would obviously start Russians wondering why they couldn't have the same...and why THEIR government keeps them down. And that would be a direct threat to his rule. Isn't Russia a relatively free and successful nation already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said: Okay, you join up and fight them. I don't want anyone to fight them. I have no thirst for war or to see anyone else have to face that. But humans work like any other animal...you feel under threat and you either puff yourself up and fight or you run (depending on the temperament of the animal involved). Putin now feels like an animal backed into a corner...which makes him very dangerous. He has puffed himself up to fight. I agree some kind of agreement should have been reached between Ukraine and Russia ages ago...but now we have got to the point where the animal instinct has taken over. The issue now is to contain the war and to stop it sucking in others. 3 minutes ago, Dromedary said: Isn't Russia a relatively free and successful nation already? Superficially it looks that way. Even the old USSR had a branch of McDonalds in Moscow...I remember watching it open on the news back in the day. The real test is whether ordinary Russians speak out or protest against the war on their streets. Some brave people have spoken out...but with a 5 yr jail sentence for protesting, not many. Doesn't sound free to me. Successful...guess that depends on who you ask. Some city slicker in Moscow or some alcoholic in a shabby 60s flat in Omsk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Looks like the Russians have now captured the remaining reactors at Chernobyl. Hope they keep the cooling water flowing. Perhaps they have brought the instruction manual with them...they did design the pile of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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