Video Doctors

[Dromedary]

On 12/03/2022 at 13:41, Anna B said:

.....IMO it's a deliberate ploy to run down the NHS which has been in crisis since well before the pandemic, so people will have to take out private insurance, that's if they can get it - if you have any health issues (which most older people have,) you will have to pay through the nose. 

 

The one thing you can depend on is your taxes won't go down to compensate, in fact National Insurance is due to rise. So once again you will be paying a lot more for less, while the government can still claim to it being 'free at the point of use' and 'protecting the NHS.' 

It actually benefits the ones who do use the NHS if those that can afford to go private. You were talking about Finland a while ago and saying they have a better system but to have that people do pay a great deal more in assorted taxes. 

[El Cid]

10 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

It actually benefits the ones who do use the NHS if those that can afford to go private. You were talking about Finland a while ago and saying they have a better system but to have that people do pay a great deal more in assorted taxes. 

Healthcare spending per person in OECD countries in 2017

The UK spends a very similar ammount on health care. I would immaginge the UK population to be less healthy tho.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29

[Anna B]

2 hours ago, El Cid said:

Healthcare spending per person in OECD countries in 2017

The UK spends a very similar ammount on health care. I would immaginge the UK population to be less healthy tho.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29

A lot of the NHS is now privatised, and is then bought in by the NHS with contracts at inflated prices, so money is being spent, but not on the front line where it is needed and not wisely.

 

The lack of doctors and nurses for example is made up by private nursing agencies who charge far more than the average nurses wage to fill the gaps. The money goes to the agency, rather than the nurse in question, so is not value for money.

Similarly the NHS has to hire subsidury services from the private sector such as mental health and specialist care, which are not always  available 'in house.' 

The debacle over PPI during the pandemic is another good example, as is the aquisition of drugs from various pharmaceutical companies at much inflated prices.

 

So money is coming into the NHS, and going straight into the back pockets of the owners of companies who can inflate their prices at will, because the NHS has no option but to pay it.

Yet the NHS is the largest employer and buyer in the UK; its contracts very much sought after. It should be in a strong  position to dictate prices, not the other way round. 

  

[Dromedary]

13 hours ago, El Cid said:

Healthcare spending per person in OECD countries in 2017

The UK spends a very similar ammount on health care. I would immaginge the UK population to be less healthy tho.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29

Unfortunately that data is a bit old and it's not quite that simple as it is the median average percentage. As shown by the data and graphs where the funding comes from is important as it also depends on who is funding it and whether it is privately funded or government funded. For instance in the G7 developed countries in 2017 the UK spending was £2,913 per person (the second lowest) as opposed to the USA with the highest at £7,736.

 

Figure 4 give a better examples of how it is funded as it breaks it down into Government, mandatory and non mandatory expenditure.

[Dromedary]

11 hours ago, Anna B said:

A lot of the NHS is now privatised, and is then bought in by the NHS with contracts at inflated prices, so money is being spent, but not on the front line where it is needed and not wisely.

Doctors, Optometrists, Pharmacists and dentists have always be privatised since the birth of the NHS. Also suppliers who provide the necessary items for daily use are generally privately run. Just one example which has to be privately sourced, a hospital bed. To meet health and safety needs from the rise in obesity replacing a single bed in a hospital can cost upwards of £20,000 + 

 

Quote

The lack of doctors and nurses for example is made up by private nursing agencies who charge far more than the average nurses wage to fill the gaps. The money goes to the agency, rather than the nurse in question, so is not value for money.

That depends as agencies take a percentage and not all of it. There are 2 choices, paying for the necessary staff who are already trained to fill any gaps when needed or create more new training jobs to train new staff, which may take several years and with no guarantee that they then would not go elsewhere when graduated or qualified. The latter has been happening a lot when it comes to doctors when they graduate as the conditions and salaries paid in other countries are far superior to ours. The USA is a prime example as it has a mainly privatised healthcare system that can command high wages for its employees. 

 

This bill is now in its report stage in the House Of Lords. 

 

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/news-item/will-the-new-health-and-care-bill-privatise-the-nhs?gclid=CjwKCAjw8sCRBhA6EiwA6_IF4S2lHmY0SGG4PbayI6vDFBPRlXj3cbITZSuSMvL80kpgSWUvP3YIXRoCDUUQAvD_BwE

Edited March 15, 2022 by Dromedary

[Anna B]

3 hours ago, Dromedary said:

Doctors, Optometrists, Pharmacists and dentists have always be privatised since the birth of the NHS. Also suppliers who provide the necessary items for daily use are generally privately run. Just one example which has to be privately sourced, a hospital bed. To meet health and safety needs from the rise in obesity replacing a single bed in a hospital can cost upwards of £20,000 + 

 

That depends as agencies take a percentage and not all of it. There are 2 choices, paying for the necessary staff who are already trained to fill any gaps when needed or create more new training jobs to train new staff, which may take several years and with no guarantee that they then would not go elsewhere when graduated or qualified. The latter has been happening a lot when it comes to doctors when they graduate as the conditions and salaries paid in other countries are far superior to ours. The USA is a prime example as it has a mainly privatised healthcare system that can command high wages for its employees. 

 

This bill is now in its report stage in the House Of Lords. 

 

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/news-item/will-the-new-health-and-care-bill-privatise-the-nhs?gclid=CjwKCAjw8sCRBhA6EiwA6_IF4S2lHmY0SGG4PbayI6vDFBPRlXj3cbITZSuSMvL80kpgSWUvP3YIXRoCDUUQAvD_BwE

£ 20,000 for one hospital bed wouldn't actually surprise me, as it runs alongside other incredibly inflated prices in the NHS. 

However I would very much like to see that figure broken down, and know why they can't do it for less. The more complex equipment becomes, the more there is to go wrong - which it does on a regular basis.

 

From what I've seen much hospital equipment is faulty, unnecessary and abandoned often because it's too complicated to make it work. Nurses complain all the time about the slow computers (which they are all but attatched to.) Their job now seems to be mainly imputting data which is never looked at and largely irrelevant, at the expense of proper hands on nursing and caring and getting to know their patients, which now seems to be mostly done by poorly paid care assistants.

Machines that go 'ping' are everywhere, but often ignored because they are (I quote) 'unreliable.' I've personally seen many mistakes caused both by machines (rather than experienced nurses,) and the deskilling of said nurses over dependent on these faulty machines. 

 

And, just a simple example of what I mean; when a mate had his Knee joint replaced he was told to ease pain and swelling with a bag of frozen peas which worked just fine. When he had his other knee replaced a few years later, he was given a fancy piece of equipment which was bulky, difficult to use, and expensive, (cost upwards of £50 I believe.) He couldn't use it and reverted to the frozen peas, but when he tried to return it to the hospital they didn't want it back. What a waste. 

The  (privatised)TV's over hospital beds are complicated to use, have very limited channels, rarely work properly, and cost a small fortune (£70 a week.) Some wards refuse to use them any more as they are so troublesome and have had them taken out, but the old communal TV room where patients could have a chat and socialise as they watched TV is a thing of the past now, so they have no access to the light entertainment which might keep their minds off their situation. 

There is so much in the NHS which is going wrong.