P And O Ferries Laying Off Workers

[*_ash_*]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

Not everyone thinks like you. Some of us genuinely care about other people, and want to help. Trouble is no one is listening. They're too busy trying to scrape a living or claw their way to the top, and we become powerless in our mighty 'Democracy'.

 

Never has this country gone through such a sharp decline in living standards as now; 0 hour contracts, workers with next to no rights, unable to afford to go to law over outright injustice, and no roof over the head. Foodbanks, homelessness, an NHS which no longer functions, poor schools etc, etc,   but as long as 'I'm alright Jack' who cares?

 

 

 

1st bold: When did 'the people' have any power here? The good times when unions ran the country? 

Where do you think industry is now due to their mighty power?

 

2nd: Britain is now the same as the rest of the world. Britain once 'great' mighty power.

 

Reality is, now, it's a pathetic little island. The only reason it is on the map in the first place is because it was one of the first industrial countries, and robbed everything else from other places.

Why people still live in the clouds about this place is beyond me. 

 

For people like you Anna, you can pull out the 3 cars given to all Labour candidates who are allowed on TV. There answer to everything is:

1. It's not enough.

2. It's too late

 

and 3, they are allowed the treasured card, so have to be shadow cabinet:

 

3. It's too little too late. 

 

£80,000 a year to use one of 3 cards. 

 

 

[redruby]

On 19/03/2022 at 20:31, ECCOnoob said:

Yeah you say it Brother. They should just let the whole company collapse and put all few thousand employees out of jobs instead.   That will show them lot in the Ivory Tower!  Up the workers! ......right?

 

The only balance that should matter in this instance is the emergency sacrifice of one part to try and protect the much larger remainder with higher number of employees.

 

Watching the news, I do find it ridiculous the amount of ill-informed opinionators, ego filled politicos and now even the local god botherer demanding boycotts,  demanding class lawsuits without having a clue about extremely complex business and legal issues. 

 

The company itself freely admits it was a drastic and last resort measure which was done to try and slow its financial obliteration.   This is not some oversimplistic black and white issue. It certainly wasn't the first company to do these things and it will not be the last.

 

Of course it's upsetting, shocking and unfortunate for all those 800 employees but someone answer me this.....  would they have preferred it if the entire few thousand workforce were all redundant but were given the appropriate union approved consultation and notice period? Would that suddenly make it better? Would it ease the pain? I highly doubt it.

 

What exactly is the problem with buying off the penalty of immediately removing 800 if it results in saving the jobs of the remaining couple of thousand.  That looks like a sound commercial decision to me. But then again in my job I don't have an option to be all emotive and hysterical when giving decisions.

 

I'm sure the company's PR has been dented for a while, but as I said before, we are all selfish hypocrites deep down and as soon as a company restarts with services that we want to use with timetables that suits our needs, we will be back on board. 

 

Joe Public don't really care whether their onboard bartender, or the nice lady dishing out the chips in the self serve cafe really comes from. They don't really care about how much less they are getting paid an hour compared to the British citizen made redundant.  As long as  the business is running and the fares keep at a price that customers are willing to pay. That's it.

 

People do a lot of talk about ethical business, and of course there are those who volunteer to boycott and pay more but that is still very much a minority.

 

For the masses, we don't actually care that much. What P&O have done is nothing that different to most business operations in the modern world - which we have embraced with open arms. Ask yourself if you really care about welfare of employees when you are buying your £2 t-shirt or cheap electronics from a well-known online retailer.

 

Oh it's all so disgraceful we scream when it happens to our own.  Of course there is anger and upset about how this could have happened on our shores to our people.  But, that's soon forgotten come summertime when we are flocking to our bargain basement Airlines to Eastern European or developing Far East countries where the beer is dirt cheap, palatial hotel rooms are dirt cheap and the dancing girls are dir.....

 

.... well, you get the point.

Unfortunately there is truth in this. I maintain that P&O though have crossed a line and may well have trashed their brand as a result.  Would it really have made much difference if P&O had followed standard redundancy consultations?  Maybe not. However, I don’t believe that is a reason to be weak and fatalistic and just accept P&O’s actions in a race to the bottom on employment rights.  If our ancestors had done that we’d still be sending children up chimneys and working 12+ hour days with no annual leave.

 

[ECCOnoob]

3 hours ago, redruby said:

Unfortunately there is truth in this. I maintain that P&O though have crossed a line and may well have trashed their brand as a result.  Would it really have made much difference if P&O had followed standard redundancy consultations?  Maybe not. However, I don’t believe that is a reason to be weak and fatalistic and just accept P&O’s actions in a race to the bottom on employment rights.  If our ancestors had done that we’d still be sending children up chimneys and working 12+ hour days with no annual leave.

 

I would suggest we still are, with people more than happy to embrace and accept it - as long as it's happening to somebody else and not one of our own.

 

Haven't those children up the chimney just been converted into sweatshop factories in the Far East and developing Nations making our clothing and trainers and pound shop stock and consumer electronics.... which we all flock to buy with their bargain basement prices.

 

How  about something a little more or close to home, we all love to visit the the great big nation of America, we all love coming home bragging about fantastic holidays there with their grate food and even better service - whilst blatantly ignoring the fact that many of the serving staff can't survive without  tips and many American employees don't get contractual basics like paid leave even in 2022.

 

You talk about our ancestors but what has really changed. We are all still exploiting when suits us, and in 100 years time there will simply be a new breed of it.

 

It is already happening with the digital age. Teenagers and youngsters whose 'career' has become self publication and gratification financially tied to some uncontrollable mystery algorithm generating views and ad revenue.  This results in them working hours a week, no time off and constantly producing video content to desperately try to keep pace whilst also having a constant risk that the system could take it all the way at the drop of a hat with no warning.   

 

Interesting the outrage people are showing towards P&O Ferries for their actions in trying to desperately plug a financial black hole in their business whilst at the same time thousands are volunteering and embracing the self-inflicted world of social media and influencer 'careers'.

 

I don't want to sound like a broken record but hypocrites doesn't even come close to how we behave at the moment.  We campaign, we chant, we claim we want to put the world better and stop exploitation but it's all so insincere and lackluster. We don't really.  

[iansheff]

Eight hundred P&O Ferries workers fired suddenly last week are only being given redundancy pay on the condition they sign Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs), according to the transport secretary.

 

Fired P&O Ferries workers 'forced to sign gagging order in return for redundancy pay' (msn.com)

[cgksheff]

44 minutes ago, iansheff said:

Eight hundred P&O Ferries workers fired suddenly last week are only being given redundancy pay on the condition they sign Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs), according to the transport secretary.

 

Fired P&O Ferries workers 'forced to sign gagging order in return for redundancy pay' (msn.com)

Grant Shapps The Secretary of State for Transport

"My understanding—again, the House will have a strong view on this—is that they are being offered two and a half weeks’ pay, rather than one week’s pay for every year’s service, as well as three months’ redundancy pay and then another three months’ redundancy pay for the fact that it is happening very early. In other words, it is six months’ redundancy pay and two and a half weeks’ pay. However—and this is the catch—it is on the condition that they sign a non-disclosure agreement. Again, this goes to the heart of the problem, which is the company working in a way that tries to keep employees quiet and then pay them off in return."

 

P&O Ferries and Employment Rights: 21 Mar 2022: House of Commons debates - TheyWorkForYou

 

 

[Delbow]

5 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

 

 

I don't want to sound like a broken record but hypocrites doesn't even come close to how we behave at the moment.  We campaign, we chant, we claim we want to put the world better and stop exploitation but it's all so insincere and lackluster. We don't really.  

It's other people - not you - who do the campaigning, chanting and striking, only to be denounced by Tory mouthpieces like you. I think you need to make up your mind - is taking action for fairer wealth distribution, for social justice, greater democracy and stronger rights for workers good or bad? Because if it's good, then your unflinching support for each and every action of the Conservative Party for the last 45 years would seem kind of incongruous, dare I say hypocritical.

[Anna B]

4 hours ago, cgksheff said:

Grant Shapps The Secretary of State for Transport

"My understanding—again, the House will have a strong view on this—is that they are being offered two and a half weeks’ pay, rather than one week’s pay for every year’s service, as well as three months’ redundancy pay and then another three months’ redundancy pay for the fact that it is happening very early. In other words, it is six months’ redundancy pay and two and a half weeks’ pay. However—and this is the catch—it is on the condition that they sign a non-disclosure agreement. Again, this goes to the heart of the problem, which is the company working in a way that tries to keep employees quiet and then pay them off in return."

 

P&O Ferries and Employment Rights: 21 Mar 2022: House of Commons debates - TheyWorkForYou

 

 

This^

And as for sweatshops etc, they are well established in this country too with regards to working conditions.

Think Amazon. But we don't want to deprive Mr Bezos of a few more £Billion.

[L00b]

Chris Grayling amended the TULRCA 1992 by Statutory Instrument in 2018, so employers would only have to inform authorities where ships are registered of their proposed actions, i.e. not the UK, where P&O ferry operation is headquartered in Dover, but Cyprus, to which P&O shifted the registration of its ferries in 2019.

 

Yes, that Chris “two ferries” Grayling.

 

Cyprus is in the EU and applies EU-grade working legislation. The UK removed itself from the scope of EU-grade working legislation through Brexit. P&O made the Brit sea workers redundant, and keep the Irish and French workers. The dots are easy enough to connect.

[ECCOnoob]

49 minutes ago, L00b said:

Chris Grayling amended the TULRCA 1992 by Statutory Instrument in 2018, so employers would only have to inform authorities where ships are registered of their proposed actions, i.e. not the UK, where P&O ferry operation is headquartered in Dover, but Cyprus, to which P&O shifted the registration of its ferries in 2019.

 

Yes, that Chris “two ferries” Grayling.

 

Cyprus is in the EU and applies EU-grade working legislation. The UK removed itself from the scope of EU-grade working legislation through Brexit. P&O made the Brit sea workers redundant, and keep the Irish and French workers. The dots are easy enough to connect.

The RMT must feel stupid now for advising their members to vote brexit....  funny how they're not mentioning that in their press releases or during their high and mighty placard waving.

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[altus]

28 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

The RMT must feel stupid now for advising their members to vote brexit....  funny how they're not mentioning that in their press releases or during their high and mighty placard waving.

 

To be fair, the Conservative Party are trying to keep very quiet on the issue too.