P And O Ferries Laying Off Workers

[Mister M]

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

Yeah you say it Brother. They should just let the whole company collapse and put all few thousand employees out of jobs instead.   That will show them lot in the Ivory Tower!  Up the workers! ......right?

 

The only balance that should matter in this instance is the emergency sacrifice of one part to try and protect the much larger remainder with higher number of employees.

 

Watching the news, I do find it ridiculous the amount of ill-informed opinionators, ego filled politicos and now even the local god botherer demanding boycotts,  demanding class lawsuits without having a clue about extremely complex business and legal issues. 

 

The company itself freely admits it was a drastic and last resort measure which was done to try and slow its financial obliteration.   This is not some oversimplistic black and white issue. It certainly wasn't the first company to do these things and it will not be the last.

 

Of course it's upsetting, shocking and unfortunate for all those 800 employees but someone answer me this.....  would they have preferred it if the entire few thousand workforce were all redundant but were given the appropriate union approved consultation and notice period? Would that suddenly make it better? Would it ease the pain? I highly doubt it.

 

What exactly is the problem with buying off the penalty of immediately removing 800 if it results in saving the jobs of the remaining couple of thousand.  That looks like a sound commercial decision to me. But then again in my job I don't have an option to be all emotive and hysterical when giving decisions.

 

I'm sure the company's PR has been dented for a while, but as I said before, we are all selfish hypocrites deep down and as soon as a company restarts with services that we want to use with timetables that suits our needs, we will be back on board. 

 

Joe Public don't really care whether their onboard bartender, or the nice lady dishing out the chips in the self serve cafe really comes from. They don't really care about how much less they are getting paid an hour compared to the British citizen made redundant.  As long as  the business is running and the fares keep at a price that customers are willing to pay. That's it.

 

People do a lot of talk about ethical business, and of course there are those who volunteer to boycott and pay more but that is still very much a minority.

 

For the masses, we don't actually care that much. What P&O have done is nothing that different to most business operations in the modern world - which we have embraced with open arms. Ask yourself if you really care about welfare of employees when you are buying your £2 t-shirt or cheap electronics from a well-known online retailer.

 

Oh it's all so disgraceful we scream when it happens to our own.  Of course there is anger and upset about how this could have happened on our shores to our people.  But, that's soon forgotten come summertime when we are flocking to our bargain basement Airlines to Eastern European or developing Far East countries where the beer is dirt cheap, palatial hotel rooms are dirt cheap and the dancing girls are dir.....

 

.... well, you get the point.

What job do you do?

[ECCOnoob]

44 minutes ago, Mister M said:

What job do you do?

Legal and regulatory.

[Mister M]

Sorry I shouldn't laugh but....

MP joins in “shame on you” chant and then realises it’s about her in awkward self-own (msn.com)

 

[crookesey]

When I’m supermarket shopping I read the label, price and sell by date, if it was produced by someone in a third world country and they were paid peanuts they are still better off by virtue of my purchase. I’ve noticed that most left wingers are more concerned with themselves than the great unwashed, I’ve further noticed  that they also have a liking for visiting third world countries in order to profit from the poverty of the populace.

 

I had great sympathy for those who lost their jobs due to the collapse of U.K. industry, however I know many who have started their own businesses and are doing very nicely. It’s very easy to blame the Tories for everything that goes wrong and ignore all the things that have gone right, I don’t vote for any party anymore, Spitting Image would have a field day with the current incumbents of the Palace of Westminster.

[Delbow]

15 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Yeah you say it Brother. They should just let the whole company collapse and put all few thousand employees out of jobs instead.   That will show them lot in the Ivory Tower!  Up the workers! ......right?

 

The only balance that should matter in this instance is the emergency sacrifice of one part to try and protect the much larger remainder with higher number of employees.

 

Watching the news, I do find it ridiculous the amount of ill-informed opinionators, ego filled politicos and now even the local god botherer demanding boycotts,  demanding class lawsuits without having a clue about extremely complex business and legal issues. 

 

The company itself freely admits it was a drastic and last resort measure which was done to try and slow its financial obliteration.   This is not some oversimplistic black and white issue. It certainly wasn't the first company to do these things and it will not be the last.

 

Of course it's upsetting, shocking and unfortunate for all those 800 employees but someone answer me this.....  would they have preferred it if the entire few thousand workforce were all redundant but were given the appropriate union approved consultation and notice period? Would that suddenly make it better? Would it ease the pain? I highly doubt it.

 

What exactly is the problem with buying off the penalty of immediately removing 800 if it results in saving the jobs of the remaining couple of thousand.  That looks like a sound commercial decision to me. But then again in my job I don't have an option to be all emotive and hysterical when giving decisions.

 

I'm sure the company's PR has been dented for a while, but as I said before, we are all selfish hypocrites deep down and as soon as a company restarts with services that we want to use with timetables that suits our needs, we will be back on board. 

 

Joe Public don't really care whether their onboard bartender, or the nice lady dishing out the chips in the self serve cafe really comes from. They don't really care about how much less they are getting paid an hour compared to the British citizen made redundant.  As long as  the business is running and the fares keep at a price that customers are willing to pay. That's it.

 

People do a lot of talk about ethical business, and of course there are those who volunteer to boycott and pay more but that is still very much a minority.

 

For the masses, we don't actually care that much. What P&O have done is nothing that different to most business operations in the modern world - which we have embraced with open arms. Ask yourself if you really care about welfare of employees when you are buying your £2 t-shirt or cheap electronics from a well-known online retailer.

 

Oh it's all so disgraceful we scream when it happens to our own.  Of course there is anger and upset about how this could have happened on our shores to our people.  But, that's soon forgotten come summertime when we are flocking to our bargain basement Airlines to Eastern European or developing Far East countries where the beer is dirt cheap, palatial hotel rooms are dirt cheap and the dancing girls are dir.....

 

.... well, you get the point.

I made a point about the balance between employer's rights and employee's rights in general, and you responded with a long post about this particular employer. 

[Anna B]

22 hours ago, Delbow said:

I made a point about the balance between employer's rights and employee's rights in general, and you responded with a long post about this particular employer. 

Agreed, There is no balance between employer and employees rights any more. That's the problem.

[ECCOnoob]

4 hours ago, Anna B said:

Agreed, There is no balance between employer and employees rights any more. That's the problem.

Does anyone actually care.  As long as it's not them affected........ meh.   Nothing more than a load of 'oh dearism'.

 

Like I said, we are all selfish hypocrites. We chant  and scream about employee rights when it happens to our own but don't give a flying fig about our exploitation and advantage that we reap over other nations.   

 

The cruise industry, merchant sailors, serving staff, chef's, porters, housekeepers, valets, drivers, cabin crew in countries around the world are on peanut wages - have been for decades. It's how any company operates with foreign registry and ability to recruit staff from multiple jurisdictions.

 

Its how nations across the globe continue in their power struggle to dominate over each by offering betterment and incentives over a neighbour. It's something we average people on the street are all more than happy to embrace and celebrate by the fact that it gives us great value on the price tag and the freedom to simply walk away and choose elsewhere when it doesn't. Not a second thought about who we might be putting out of business or the ethics  

 

That includes the EU Nations who deludedly seem to think they have a right to be all high and mighty over this issue.  They certainly don't given that Irish Ferries  for example, did exactly the same 'appaulling' 'disgraceful' business practices recently.  Or that there are many EU Nations who are paying less money per hour than we ever did.  Go ask your average Brit in Benidorm if they care that Juan behind the bar gets paid so called 'poverty' wages or that Consuela the  housekeeper working on their £399 package cruise ship has to lose half her wages to pay for the ships accommodation and and sustenance....

 

Blimey, even I remember 25 + years ago when I was a student working hotels how the wages for service staff were pittance compared to similar roles in other types of establishments.

 

It might be a problem but ultimately it soon fades away when it suits people. This is not some simplistic evil corporations vs innocent ordinary people. We are just as much a contributor to these situations.

 

We play at it. We are all talk. We wave the placards or fill in online petitions, we make calls to radio stations or retweet inspirational campaign slogans,   but it's all so meaningless. 

 

If we want to change the world, we need to start with a good hard look at changing ourselves - bet most won't though.  

Edited March 21, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[Annie Bynnol]

5 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

That includes the EU Nations who deludedly seem to think they have a right to be all high and mighty over this issue.  They certainly don't given that Irish Ferries  for example, did exactly the same 'appaulling' 'disgraceful' business practices recently.  

Is 'recently' seventeen years ago?

Was this dispute resolved through negotiation?

[Anna B]

6 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Does anyone actually care.  As long as it's not them affected........ meh.   Nothing more than a load of 'oh dearism'.

 

Like I said, we are all selfish hypocrites. We chant  and scream about employee rights when it happens to our own but don't give a flying fig about our exploitation and advantage that we reap over other nations.   

 

The cruise industry, merchant sailors, serving staff, chef's, porters, housekeepers, valets, drivers, cabin crew in countries around the world are on peanut wages - have been for decades. It's how any company operates with foreign registry and ability to recruit staff from multiple jurisdictions.

 

Its how nations across the globe continue in their power struggle to dominate over each by offering betterment and incentives over a neighbour. It's something we average people on the street are all more than happy to embrace and celebrate by the fact that it gives us great value on the price tag and the freedom to simply walk away and choose elsewhere when it doesn't. Not a second thought about who we might be putting out of business or the ethics  

 

That includes the EU Nations who deludedly seem to think they have a right to be all high and mighty over this issue.  They certainly don't given that Irish Ferries  for example, did exactly the same 'appaulling' 'disgraceful' business practices recently.  Or that there are many EU Nations who are paying less money per hour than we ever did.  Go ask your average Brit in Benidorm if they care that Juan behind the bar gets paid so called 'poverty' wages or that Consuela the  housekeeper working on their £399 package cruise ship has to lose half her wages to pay for the ships accommodation and and sustenance....

 

Blimey, even I remember 25 + years ago when I was a student working hotels how the wages for service staff were pittance compared to similar roles in other types of establishments.

 

It might be a problem but ultimately it soon fades away when it suits people. This is not some simplistic evil corporations vs innocent ordinary people. We are just as much a contributor to these situations.

 

We play at it. We are all talk. We wave the placards or fill in online petitions, we make calls to radio stations or retweet inspirational campaign slogans,   but it's all so meaningless. 

 

If we want to change the world, we need to start with a good hard look at changing ourselves - bet most won't though.  

Speak for yourself ECCOnoob. Not everyone thinks like you. Some of us genuinely care about other people, and want to help. Trouble is no one is listening. They're too busy trying to scrape a living or claw their way to the top, and we become powerless in our mighty 'Democracy'.

 

I can remember the nastiness, disparagement and stick 'Occupy' got all those years ago when they were camped outside the Cathedral trying to raise people's awareness of what was going on in the corporate world, (while there was still time to do something about it.) I remember the stick and slurs Corbyn got for raising his head above the parapet when he tried to bring about real change. I remember the Tories such as yourself refusing to even believe there was such a thing as 'foodbanks' a few years ago on this very Forum. It's all from the same cause and is building into one almighty perfect storm.  This is the result and this is only the start.

 

Never has this country gone through such a sharp decline in living standards as now; 0 hour contracts, workers with next to no rights, unable to afford to go to law over outright injustice, and no roof over the head. Foodbanks, homelessness, an NHS which no longer functions, poor schools etc, etc,   but as long as 'I'm alright Jack' who cares?

 

Well I care! And am regularly mocked, harangued and insulted for it, here on SF. But I will continue to do what I can both in raising my voice, and giving what practical help I can muster to others. 

How bad does it have to get until complacent people like yourself are moved sufficiently to join together to protect the defenceless, and defend the vulnerable who are having their hard won rights stripped away,  and say enough is enough! Believe me, you are not immune to the onslaught. It is coming for you too.

 

The World doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't have to be dog eat dog for survival, there is enough for all if we work together. It's not the dark ages. But unless something is done soon the pitchforks will be out on the streets, we already have deep discontent bubbling beneath the surface like before WW1, and those who didn't care will only have themselves to blame. 

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Anna B

[*_ash_*]

On 19/03/2022 at 20:31, ECCOnoob said:

For the masses, we don't actually care that much. What P&O have done is nothing that different to most business operations in the modern world - which we have embraced with open arms. Ask yourself if you really care about welfare of employees when you are buying your £2 t-shirt or cheap electronics from a well-known online retailer.

Precisely.

 

Someone earlier said to me this would never happen if not for brexit. EU laws prohibited this. 

 

Rubbish, twice when in the EU, I was working for a company that 'moved / merged / sold' and the EU rules were just bypassed by a company name change, and all contracts thrown in the bin. 

 

This has become big news, as if it is something new. 

 

-

 

My personal opinion is that this 'privileged little island we live on' has completely lost track of the world. Actually, it's not a modern country, it's a 'has been' dump, run by crap politicians for at least the last 40-70 years.

 

While people are shouting for more wages more rights more this more that, 2/3rds of the world have people who will do the same job for 1/10th of the money. Why none of the governments have done anything is because of fear of losing votes, and left this country as a basket case. USA is the same, but slightly further ahead than us