Vegans V Vegetarians

[altus]

6 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Actually A, I have a question for you.

 

Do you think it reasonable, or even acceptable, for Cambridge council to  only serve Vegan food at its functions from 2026 ?

 

And, if you don't think it reasonable, what percentage of the food they serve should be Vegan when only  about 3% of the UK population is vegan ? 

Personally I'd be saying 5% maximum.

I don't have a particular problem with it, and it certainly has advantages - pretty much everyone can eat it[1] and it neatly sidesteps issues with Halal/Kosher and other restrictions on people's diets.

 

As to whether it's reasonable? Look at it this way, for decades vegetarians and vegans were not catered for at all at council functions. At least meat eaters can eat vegan food. That's why you won't get much sympathy for your position from vegetarians or vegans.

 

 

[1] Allergies excepted, but that's a bigger issue for non-vegan food since you also have lactose intolerance to deal with as well.

[Chekhov]

2 hours ago, altus said:

>>Chekhov said :

Why do people choose to be vegetarians rather than vegans ?

There's  a difference.

It is obvious it is more difficult to find food you like as you limit what you are prepared to eat. Thus why would a vegetarian, or anyone else, be happy to limit what they can eat in order to make the catering easier ? Nobody would be happy to do that.<<

 

Because you consider the most important factor for people choosing to be vegetarian or vegan is how easy it is to obtain food and not anything to do with animal welfare or the impact on the environment, etc.

>>Because you consider the most important factor for people choosing to be vegetarian or vegan is how easy it is to obtain food <<

 

I didn't say that did I ?

If people were primarily bothered about how easy it was to obtain food they might like they'd be neither a vegetarian nor a vegan !

But if vegetarians do not think eating free range eggs or drinking milk is not bad enough to avoid those products then they eat them because they like them (or the foods they are in, and I don't blame them !

Not strictly speaking relevant for this thread but personally speaking I can understand why people would want to be vegetarian (though I am not one myself), I can't so much understand why people would want to be  vegan. Much harder and, to me, less reason to bother.

[Chekhov]

2 hours ago, altus said:

I don't have a particular problem with it [Cambridge Council only serving Vegan food at its functions], and it certainly has advantages - pretty much everyone can eat it[1] and it neatly sidesteps issues with Halal/Kosher and other restrictions on people's diets.

 

As to whether it's reasonable? Look at it this way, for decades vegetarians and vegans were not catered for at all at council functions. At least meat eaters can eat vegan food. That's why you won't get much sympathy for your position from vegetarians or vegans.

 

[1] Allergies excepted, but that's a bigger issue for non-vegan food since you also have lactose intolerance to deal with as well.

That's a bit of a disgrace I think.

Why should people be banned from eating what they can eat anywhere else, particularly when they are in the overwhelming majority AND the overwhelming  majority of those paying all the taxes for those functions also eat meat etc.

 

>>pretty much everyone can eat it. At least meat eaters can eat vegan food.<<

 

But most people don't want to eat it ! The Times article proves what we all know anyway.

Serving people food on the basis that "anyone can eat it" is no argument at all, otherwise all restaurants would do that. I am sure it'd make their lives much easier if they could get away with it, but they could not because, err, their takings would drop through the floor. Cambridge council are taking advantage of the fact that, in their functions, there would not be any choice.

 

>>That's why you won't get much sympathy for your position from vegetarians or vegans.<<

 

I am not asking for sympathy, I am asking about what you think is fair. And I suspect, from your answer, you may be a bit of a vegan militant.

 

[RJRB]

There is a vastly increased presence of Vegan options in supermarkets,to the extent that a chiller or two is dedicated to certain items and other bits and pieces are scattered around with other foodstuffs.

I can understand why any business would try to streamline their product lines to avoid wastage.

It might not be ideal for an individual taste or requirement but if the profitable demand was there then it would be catered for.

[SFBeca]

4 hours ago, Chekhov said:

I doubt that very much. Surely, given a choice, a vegetarian would eat a cheese sandwich (as in real cheese) rather than a non dairy faux cheese. In fact I'm certain of it because, if they were quite happy to eat faux cheese etc, they'd be vegans, but they're not.

Gonna have to disagree with you here, I'm veggie and quite often will choose to eat the vegan cheese. Thinking of an example of choosing vegan over veggie as Christmas sandwiches in shops - veggie option might be brie & grape, vegan option might be vegan turkey, cranberry etc - I want the vegan option there. 

 

Reason I'm not vegan (now, have been in the past) is cos I do like egg/cheese etc but literally have no problem if there is just a vegan option available - it's like the same option to me?

[FIRETHORN1]

Being a full-on vegan is a  very different thing to being vegetarian. Most vegetarians I know will avoid eating meat, poultry and fish, but will happily eat other animal products like milk, butter, cream, cheese & eggs. I only know one vegan and he is so dedicated to  "Veganism" that not only will he not eat any animal products, he will also not wear any either - like leather shoes or belts, natural wool jumpers etc. He won't use any cosmetic products that contain anything from animals - like lanolin, for example. He even gives his GP and pharmacist the 3rd degree to make sure that any medicines he is prescribed don't contain any animal products. I suppose this kind of fanatical vegan extremism is his choice but,  frankly, he gets on my nerves with it. I think he's just a virtue-signalling  knob, to be honest. 

[Chekhov]

16 minutes ago, SFBeca said:

Gonna have to disagree with you here, I'm veggie and quite often will choose to eat the vegan cheese. Thinking of an example of choosing vegan over veggie as Christmas sandwiches in shops - veggie option might be brie & grape, vegan option might be vegan turkey, cranberry etc - I want the vegan option there. 

 

Reason I'm not vegan (now, have been in the past) is cos I do like egg/cheese etc but literally have no problem if there is just a vegan option available - it's like the same option to me?

Surely those two statements are somewhat contradictory. But, be that as it may, many Vegetarians DO object to only being given a Vegan alternative, though I am sure they'd all say that is preferable to only a meat option.

[Chekhov]

21 minutes ago, FIRETHORN1 said:

Being a full-on vegan is a  very different thing to being vegetarian. Most vegetarians I know will avoid eating meat, poultry and fish, but will happily eat other animal products like milk, butter, cream, cheese & eggs. I only know one vegan and he is so dedicated to  "Veganism" that not only will he not eat any animal products, he will also not wear any either - like leather shoes or belts, natural wool jumpers etc. He won't use any cosmetic products that contain anything from animals - like lanolin, for example. He even gives his GP and pharmacist the 3rd degree to make sure that any medicines he is prescribed don't contain any animal products. I suppose this kind of fanatical vegan extremism is his choice but,  frankly, he gets on my nerves with it. I think he's just a virtue-signalling  knob, to be honest. 

TBH, as I alluded to, as they get further into it the law of diminishing returns sets in and any benefit to animals or the planet gets less and less for more and more hassle to themselves.

Still, if it makes him happy, just so long as he doesn't try to force it on others (or would want to force it on others if he had the chance...), that's up to him, it's a free country, ish.

The thing is I am uncertain if it does actually make him happy, and, from what you have said, I'm bleedin' sure he would force it on others if he had the power to do so. Which, of course, is what Cambridge City Council are doing. It's a disgrace as the vast majority of the tax payers paying for them eat meat and have a right to expect that at any of their functions they might attend.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Chekhov

[Beechwood_S6]

8 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Surely those two statements are somewhat contradictory. But, be that as it may, many Vegetarians DO object to only being given a Vegan alternative, though I am sure they'd all say that is preferable to only a meat option.

As a vegetarian, I'd happily have the Vegan options,, I only buy Cheese and eggs when they are reduced and likely to go to waste, if i'm paying full price I will always choose the Vegan option.

[SFBeca]

12 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Surely those two statements are somewhat contradictory. 

Nah, you can like eggs and cheese, and also like a vegan option. There's not really any issue here!