Modern Life Is Rubbish

[Chekhov]

3 hours ago, Hecate said:

Nice anecdata.  Don't you think that there might be several variables at play here, things you're unaware of, things that had an effect before that child's parent left, and which he's likely still affected by?

He was a nice lad right up to his Dad leaving.

At the end of the day relationships, particularly ones which have kids (= a lot more stress) almost always have arguments. The perfect relationship is very rare. Does it even exist ? If parents find themselves in a relationship they are dissatisfied with then they should think about their kids, and stay together till they're older, and I mean 15 odd.

You have kids you have responsibilities, and I mean from the point of conception onwards.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

thought I knew a bit about parenting, until I became one, and realised it is much harder than I could have imagined.

 

10 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Given that the record of "experts" (certainly the ones the government were listening to) was worse than tossing a coin (and I mean literally), your point has minimal value

So on one hand don't comment on parenting issues because you're not a parent, but on the other please do comment on scientific and medical issues because you're not a scientist or medic.  I see.

[Chekhov]

3 hours ago, Hecate said:

Musick & Meier (2010):

I am cynical about many of these studies and how they are reported as we start verging into politics. The problem society has is that it does not want to imply any criticism of the single parent family, particularly as an increasing proportion of families are single parent. This is the modern way, live your life as you want, people should not criticise you or think the worse of you for it, regardless of the consequences. It's the same reason the word fat is no longer acceptable, despite the fact being fat is very bad for people and the NHS come to that.

Quite apart from anything other studies are available, and most of the articles I read in the paper conclude two parents are better than one in the vast majority of cases. But I read The Times as opposed to The Guardian, I suspect the latter would tend to have more stories implying the opposite. 

https://gillespieshields.com/40-facts-two-parent-families/

 

I am a parent, it is quite difficult enough with two parents, it is obvious to me it would be much harder with only one, and this is with only one child (albeit not a "biddable" one).

 

14 minutes ago, Hecate said:

So on one hand don't comment on parenting issues because you're not a parent, but on the other please do comment on scientific and medical issues because you're not a scientist or medic.  I see.

No it's about personal experience.

You can study a subject all day long, but that is not the same as experiencing it. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Chekhov

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

He was a nice lad right up to his Dad leaving.

Unless you're very familiar with that's boy's previous and current personal, social, psychological and medical circumstances it's probably wise not to attribute a simple one variable cause and effect relationship to his behaviour.

 

14 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

At the end of the day relationships, particularly ones which have kids (= a lot more stress) almost always have arguments. The perfect relationship is very rare. Does it even exist ? If parents find themselves in a relationship they are dissatisfied with then they should think about their kids, and stay together till they're older, and I mean 15 odd.

You have kids you have responsibilities, and I mean from the point of conception onwards.

I'm not talking about a perfect relationship; I'm not talking about the usual arguments that occur from time to time; I'm not talking about 'being dissatisfied' with a relationship. I'm talking about a relationship that has deteriorated to the point that from any perspective being apart would be the only reasonable course of action 'if not for the sake of the children'.

 

Parents in such a relationship should separate, ensuring that the child knows that it is loved, supported and valued by both parents and will continue to be so. 

 

That's the adult way of dealing with a noxious situation, not by trying to pretend that all is well or, worse, getting to the point where they can't even pretend any more. 

 

A child is like a sponge, especially below the age of seven or so.  Having a child soak in that sort of poisonous atmosphere is abusive and will affect their life and relationships for years to come.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

am cynical about many of these studies and how they are reported as we start verging into politics. The problem society has is that it does not want to imply any criticism of the single parent family, particularly as an increasing proportion of families are single parent. This is the modern way, live your life as you want, people should not criticise you or think the worse of you for it, regardless of the consequences. It's the same reason the word fat is no longer acceptable, despite the fact being fat is very bad for people and the NHS come to that.

Quite apart from anything other studies are available, and most of the articles I read in the paper conclude two parents are better than one in the vast majority of cases. But I read The Times as opposed to The Guardian, I suspect the latter would tend to have more stories implying the opposite. 

https://gillespieshields.com/40-facts-two-parent-families/

By all means reject the paper in favour of newspaper articles from your favoured political persusaion, quote a random US law practice blog entry, and bluster on about your same old same old.  Doesn't really add much weight to your point though.

 

19 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

I am a parent, it is quite difficult enough with two parents, it is obvious to me it would be much harder with only one, and this is with only one child (albeit not a "biddable" one).

The child still has two parents.  Removing a parent from the home and the relationship does not necessarily remove that parent from having an active and important role in the life of the child, unless, of course, that relationship was violent or otherwise abusive, but we're not talking about that.

 

22 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

No it's about personal experience.

You can study a subject all day long, but that is not the same as experiencing it.

Again, I will acknowledge that a parent is likely much better than someone who doesn't have children at wrangling a baby into a nappy, dealing with a toddler tantrum and wiping mushed carrots off the wall. 

 

Does having a child mean that someone is qualified to be a parent that's competent and willingly informed enough to help a child become a happy, independent, confident, secure adult?  No it absolutely does not.

 

[Tyke02]

48 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

No it's about personal experience.

You can study a subject all day long, but that is not the same as experiencing it. 

By that logic nobody should be commenting on Covid unless they have experience of managing infectious disease outbreaks.

[Chekhov]

6 hours ago, Hecate said:

A relationship does not have to be violent or abusive to be poisonous, obviously.

Let's see how far you are prepared to go on this "people should be free to chase fulfilment / pleasure / enhancement of their lives irrespective of their responsibilities to their children".

Are we in agreement that a parent should not be having affairs and stuff ?

[Guest]

Just now, Chekhov said:

Let's see how far you are prepared to go on this "people should be free to chase fulfilment / pleasure / enhancement of their lives irrespective of their responsibilities to their children".

What the hell?  Where have I said anything about that?!

[Chekhov]

2 hours ago, Tyke02 said:

By that logic nobody should be commenting on Covid unless they have experience of managing infectious disease outbreaks.

I certainly think nobody should be recommending suppression measures which affect others more than they affect them.

For example, having a safe job whilst recommending shutting down society which puts others in less safe jobs in jeopardy of unemployment. Or recommending shutting swimming pools if they themselves do not swim in them much. 

 

However, my basic point stands, the "experts" record during Covid was no better than the toss of a coin.

 

7 minutes ago, Hecate said:

What the hell?  Where have I said anything about that?!

That is the implication of what you are saying.

The great majority of relationship failures are not as a result of violence or abuse. 

I would think the majority are people who think this relationship is not all I expected, there's too much arguing and bickering, forget the kids I would be happier out of it.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Chekhov

[Chekhov]

2 hours ago, Hecate said:

By all means reject the paper in favour of newspaper articles from your favoured political persusaion, quote a random US law practice blog entry, and bluster on about your same old same old.  Doesn't really add much weight to your point though.

I cannot think there are any studied which conclude that kids do as well with one parent as two, on average.

What we are then into is subjective measurement how "bad" the parental relationship is and into political considerations. What I said about The Guardian carrying more positive stories about single parents households and the Daily Telegraph more about how two parents being better for the kids, probably sums it up.

I still find it hard to believe you really think a one parent household is as good for the kids as a two parent one. I might have more time for your arguments if you started off by admitting that then said but it depends how badly the parents are getting on. If you said that I might agree but disagree just how bad the parental relationship would have to be for divorce to be the better option for the kids.

 

My parents used to argue quite a lot and it upset me at the time, but it was definitely better for me, my bother and my sister that they stayed together, and I am CERTAIN they would both agree with me. My parents stayed together partly because of their religious beliefs, partly the sense of duty and responsibility back in those days, and partly social pressure as divorce was more frowned on back then. I suspect these days the chances of them divorcing would be much higher, and it would NOT have been a good thing for us kids.

Incidentally, they stayed together for over 60 years till they died, and their relationship improved as they got older, in particular after they retired. There's a very valuable lesson their I feel......

 

28 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Let's see how far you are prepared to go on this "people should be free to chase fulfilment / pleasure / enhancement of their lives irrespective of their responsibilities to their children".

Are we in agreement that a parent should not be having affairs and stuff ?

Did you miss this question ?

Edited August 6, 2023 by Chekhov