Shipping Containers Coming To Fargate

[Zinger549]

30 minutes ago, makapaka said:

Nope you’re right  - sheffield is miles better.

But they have a Harvey Nichols in Leeds. 😁

[Bargepole23]

3 hours ago, LovePotion said:

Some department stores ARE thriving. Fenwick's in York is bustling, the restaurant is popular and the shop floors are adorned with customers. 

 

Fortnum and Mason and Harrod's are always popular, especially the food halls. The difference between these stores and stores such as TJ Hughes, Atkinson's, Sunwin House & Beale's is that Fenwick's, Harrod's, Flannel's have made themselves destinations. People get an experience. They can be pampered, eat great food, speak with expert consultants, adore the seasonal displays, especially at Christmas time. 

 

TJ Hughes offered mediocre products and surly, disinterested staff. 

 

 

The other difference being that York and London have massively more tourist footfall than Sheffield.

 

 I agree with you about department stores over apartments but the retail world has moved on, apart from a few outliers.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Bargepole23

[ECCOnoob]

3 hours ago, LovePotion said:

Some department stores ARE thriving. Fenwick's in York is bustling, the restaurant is popular and the shop floors are adorned with customers. 

 

Fortnum and Mason and Harrod's are always popular, especially the food halls. The difference between these stores and stores such as TJ Hughes, Atkinson's, Sunwin House & Beale's is that Fenwick's, Harrod's, Flannel's have made themselves destinations. People get an experience. They can be pampered, eat great food, speak with expert consultants, adore the seasonal displays, especially at Christmas time. 

 

TJ Hughes offered mediocre products and surly, disinterested staff. 

 

 

Your comparisons are hardly realistic.  Harrods and Fortnum and Mason are major tourist destinations in the capital city. They are complete outliers and not even in the same league to be compared.

 

As for Fenwick, its shop floors may be bustling with customers but are they actually buying. A quick glance at their group accounts filed in 2021 showed they made a £97 million loss.

 

TJ Hughes was a purpose designed discount department store so it was obvious it was not going to have the sort of high level heavily involved customer service as premium brands.

 

But what about the many other stores that's  been and gone over time. Walsh's, Cockaynes, Roberts Brothers, Banners, Castle House, B&C stores.....  all long gone.   More recently, John Lewis clearly failed to survive in Sheffield to the point they shut it down. Then the Debenhams group has collapsed entirely, the Beales group collapsed, the Coop group has ditched nearly all of its non-food department store operations, Lewis's/Owen Owen group collapsed, House of Fraser is a shell of its former self including shutting down its flagship Oxford Street branch and it's 'Scottish Harrods' branch, Jenner's in central Edinburgh....      Even around the world massive name such as Sears and Macys, Hudson Bay and Nordstrom have all faced extreme difficulties resulting in massive store closures and knocks to their profits.

 

Yes I would love a big busy department store to be in the centre of Sheffield but the consumers have spoken. They are spending vast amounts of money in big box warehouse stores, supermarkets and online. Department stores, by their very nature require vast amounts of expensive real estate, vast amounts of staff and vast amounts of purchasing footfall going through its doors each day. They are not just something to look pretty and wonder round touching up the goods.

 

For all it's mocked, Atkinsons god bless them are at least trying to keep a strong fight. Their store maybe little bit dated but at least they are trying to keep going and adapting their stock and services as and when our own tastes and trends change with realistic prices and type of goods that people round here want and are prepared to pay.

 

It business and we have to be realistic about it.

 

For all the morning and whining that goes on here, I'd much rather a building be filled with flats as opposed to sitting empty for another 10, 15, 20 years.

Edited August 3, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[RollingJ]

4 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Your comparisons are hardly realistic.  Harrods and Fortnum and Mason are major tourist destinations in the capital city. They are complete outliers and not even in the same league to be compared.

 

As for Fenwick, it shop floors may be bustling with customers but are they actually buying. A quick glance at their group accounts filed in 2021 showed they made a £97 million loss.

 

TJ Hughes was a purpose designed discount department store so it was obvious it was not going to have the sort of high level heavily involved customer service as premium brands.

 

But what about the many other stores that's  been and gone over time. Walsh's, Cockaynes, Roberts Brothers, Banners, Castle House, B&C stores.....  all long gone.   More recently, John Lewis clearly failed to survive in Sheffield to the point they shut it down. Then the Debenhams group has collapsed entirely, the Beales group collapsed, the Coop group has ditched nearly all of its non-food department store operations, Lewis's/Owen Owen group collapsed, House of Fraser is a shell of its former self including shutting down its flagship Oxford Street branch and it's 'Scottish Harrods' branch, Jenner's in central Edinburgh....      Even around the world massive name such as Sears and Macys, Hudson Bay and Nordstrom have all faced extreme difficulties resulting in massive store closures and knocks to their profits.

 

Yes I would love a big busy department store to be in the centre of Sheffield but the consumers has spoken. They are spending vast amounts of money in big box warehouse stores, supermarkets and online. Department stores, by their very nature require vast amounts of space, vast amounts of staff and vast amounts of purchasing footfall all going through its doors each day. They are not just something to look pretty and wonder round touching up the goods.

 

For all it's not, atkinsons god bless them all at least keeping up a strong fight. Their store maybe little and a bit dated but at least they are trying to keep going and adapting their stock and services as and when our own tastes and trends change. What they do offer at the least is is a store which is set for the types of prices and type goods that people round here want and are prepared to pay.

 

It business and we have to be realistic about it.

 

For all the morning and whining that goes on here, I'd much rather the building be filled with flats as opposed to sitting empty for another 10, 15, 20 years.

Run out of reputation for today, so 👍👍

[Padders]

1 hour ago, LovePotion said:

Yes and it wasn't a big wedge like you get in a cafe, it weighed about 20grams. 

 

They are very stingy with the toppings on the pizzas too, there are big gaps of just dough. The garlic bread was thin and dry, more like a poppadom, I think they are re-heated. 

You'll get a huge wedge of puff cake in "Padders Bar" for much less than a fiver.

[AndrewC]

4 hours ago, LovePotion said:

Some department stores ARE thriving. Fenwick's in York is bustling, the restaurant is popular and the shop floors are adorned with customers. 

 

Fortnum and Mason and Harrod's are always popular, especially the food halls. The difference between these stores and stores such as TJ Hughes, Atkinson's, Sunwin House & Beale's is that Fenwick's, Harrod's, Flannel's have made themselves destinations. People get an experience. They can be pampered, eat great food, speak with expert consultants, adore the seasonal displays, especially at Christmas time. 

 

TJ Hughes offered mediocre products and surly, disinterested staff. 

 

 

Those are well-established places in areas with the perfect conditions. To open a brand-new department store and make a success of it, you need to either:

 

a) be located in a well-established, strong retail destination, i.e. the city centres of Manchester, Leeds, etc.

b) be located in such a highly populated area that the natural footfall would itself be very high, no matter what (London, basically)

c) (if neither of the above apply) invest so much money such as to create a brand that creates it's own 'tourist destination' feel to it.

 

Sheffield most certainly doesn't fit category a) and though it's a big urban area and has an increasing city centre population, it's certainly not on the scale of London.

Option c) is what you need to do to get a new department store to work in Sheffield and the vast amounts of money and effort needed to do that are simply not going to be worth the risk for any prospective operators.

 

Obviously Debenhams had national issues, but we've seen them and John Lewis both choose to shut up shop over investing in their stores again. You've got to accept that's a pretty clear indication of whether there is money in department stores in Sheffield right now.

[AndrewC]

10 minutes ago, LovePotion said:

I don't see why Sheffield can't be as tourism friendly as York. Sheffield is much larger than York and like York has a rich history, is known as the filming locations for The Full Monty, This Is England and Kez. They just need to crack down on the crack heads and ensure there are adequate facilities such as a tourist information and toilets.

 

Instead, retail units are being converted in to residential flats and the sheer space of the city centre is diminishing. With the way things are going, Castleford will have a better town centre than Sheffield.

Are you not concerned that the city centre is steadily becoming residential? Not so long ago you would be laughed at if you said you live in the city centre.

You're getting it the wrong way round. Getting rid of the 'crack heads' won't bring tourism to Sheffield. Work hard at bringing tourism to Sheffield though and you just might start seeing fewer crack heads, mind.

 

Which retail units are being converted in to flats? There's upper-floor space on Fargate and some other areas being converted in to apartments but I don't know which ground-floor retail space has been lost?

 

No one should 'concerned' about more people living in the city centre. It's not either/or, in fact an increasing local population helps make retail, hospitality ventures MORE viable. The city centre populations of Leeds & Manchester - and a host of other places - have increased massively in the last two decades.

[Padders]

5 hours ago, LovePotion said:

Some department stores ARE thriving. Fenwick's in York is bustling, the restaurant is popular and the shop floors are adorned with customers. 

 

 

 

 

With due respect LP.

I don't fancy being Adorned on a shop floor.

[ECCOnoob]

1 hour ago, LovePotion said:

We don't know what they plan to do with the Pret A Manger site, will it stay retail or be part of this big flat development.

 

Manchester is over-hyped and rather unpleasant. It has has billions of pounds invested, especially with the BBC moving most of its programming to the Media City. You are right, there is a resdientialisation of the city centre there, what with Beetham Tower. In my opinion, Manchester is just as bad as Sheffield for crackheads and scumbags and even the people who aren't on drugs there seem miserable as sin, a gentleman on the train recently referred to it as a "hell hole". Manchester is a lost cause. Leeds on the other hand has a great city centre, there are just a few beggars around outside the station but atleast they sit on the floor instead of aggressively approaching people. Leeds has a prestigious shopping arcade and Trinity shopping which was expanded in recent years. The retail units there are vast and bustling. 

Absolutely deluded. There are beggars all over Leeds. Not just around the train station.

 

Yes we all know about Leeds and it's two prestige shopping areas filled with stores (which many ordinary folk in Sheffield wouldn't touch with a barge pole).   However you can't be so naive to think it's not had impact elsewhere in the city. They are not all vast and bustling shopping areas. Try walking around the Headrow, try walking by the huge empty holes left by the abandoned Debenhams and the about to be abandoned House of Fraser.  Try the revolving door of empty units and short term tenants jumping in and out of the former Schofields/Headrow/Core/[insert name here] complex.  See the decaying places like St John's and Merrion Centres. See the impact that Trinity has had on some of the streets around it with empty units galore.

 

It really isn't all streets paved with gold up there. You really want to walk around beyond Harvey Nichols and Victoria Quarter.

[Zinger549]

Some department stores are doing ok but there have been quite a few closures/downsizing in the last few years.  House of Fraser are closing their store on Oxford St and the one in Victoria. John Lewis want to convert part of their Oxford St store to office space. If JL thought their Sheffield store could still be profitable they would of spent money on it. They obviously thought it wasn't viable any more. I don't see a Havey Nichols/Selfridges working in Sheffield maybe in Medowhall.

 

Getting rid of all the beggars/junkies isn't going to suddenly make the retail situation better.