Julian Assange To Be Extradited

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

So he broke their laws 

If you want it without the partisan outrage, here's how an article from MSNBC puts it:

 

Quote

 

... [it stems from the] 2010 publication of State Department and Defense Department files provided by Chelsea Manning, a former Army intelligence analyst.  As explained in The New York Times, the federal case on Assange asserts that he:

 

“... participated in a criminal hacking conspiracy, both by offering to help Ms. Manning mask her tracks on a secure computer network and by engaging in a broader effort to encourage hackers to obtain secret material and send it to WikiLeaks. The other is that his solicitation and publication of information the government deemed secret violated the Espionage Act.” ...

 

The charges against Assange concern whether an organization that exists primarily to solicit and disseminate illegally obtained government secrets can be considered a media organization entitled to First Amendment protections.

 

From here.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Guest

[ECCOnoob]

19 minutes ago, Anna B said:

That's the subject of debate.

 

No it is the subject of a court hearing with all the appropriate test of evidence, representations and rule of law. That is why  America want him.

 

Why the hell should we been lumbered with him.  He's not a British citizen. He had clearly choosen not to return to his home country and even the Ecuadorian Embassy got sick of his behaviour and threw him out. 

 

He's had his day in court over here several times and in each they found against him. He and his legal team repeatedly failed to provide any satisfactory evidence that he will be ill treated in the US-   so what exactly is the Home Secretary supposed to do?   This issue has to be tried one way or another.

 

There is no legitimate reason for him to be here and his anti-hero status splashed all over certain brands of the Press and Twitterarti are certainly not sufficient.

Edited June 17, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[Anna B]

He broke the law in the same way that the investagative journalists Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward broke the law in the Watergate affair, by blowing the whistle on President Nixon.

But they had the Washington Post Newspaper behind them, followed by the rest of the press when the news broke.

So despite grave threats (including death threats,) they couldn't be touched.

 

They won the PullitzerPrize instead.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Anna B

[ECCOnoob]

6 hours ago, Anna B said:

In the same way that the investagative journalists Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward broke the law in the Watergate affair, by blowing the whistle on President Nixon.

But they had the Washington Post Newspaper behind them, followed by the rest of the press when the news broke.

So despite grave threats (including death threats,) they couldn't be touched.

 

They won the PullitzerPrize instead.

That is not even remotely close to the sort of behaviour that Assange et al has been doing.

 

Legitimate whistleblowing sources and publication through a well-established and regulated newspaper can hardly be compared to the sort of mass data hacking, unverified information trawling and uncontrolled publication on the public internet.

 

Like it or not Anna, some things need to be kept secret for public safety, national security or even military strategy.  Even when whistleblowing and annonymous sources do appear, it's the job of professional journalists to be responsibly reporting it to the wider public, not amateur sluths, social media busybodies and conspiracy theorists trawling willy-nilly through masses of illegally hacked information.

 

For all the wonderful praising about information  freedom, what about thinking about some of the dark side of it....What about when completely innocent people are wrongly identified get death threats or attacked. What about when a completely innocent victim's personal, financial, employment or or medical information has been scooped up in these mass trawls and thrown out there on the web for anyone to see, manipulate or use. What about when live military operations are jeopardised and soldiers are are endangered because classified data has been thrown out there for any wrongdoer to react to.  

 

Works both ways.

 

At the very least people like Edward Snowden, have more intelligence to keep a lowish profile and show some decorum unlike ego filled Assange.  

Edited June 17, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[Guest]

The Washington Post didn't think Assange was a hero of the free press when they published this from their editorial board in 2019: Julian Assange is not a free-press hero. And he is long overdue for personal accountability.

 

Quote

 

Contrary to much pro-WikiLeaks propaganda, Mr. Assange had no legitimate fears for his life, either at the hands of CIA assassins or, via extradition, the U.S. death penalty, when he fled to the embassy of what was then an anti-American government. Rather, he was avoiding transfer to Sweden pursuant to a seemingly credible sexual assault charge lodged against him in that country. He then proceeded to abuse the hospitality of his South American hosts, most egregiously by presiding over what an indictment by U.S. special counsel Robert S. Mueller III described as Russian intelligence’s use of WikiLeaks as a front for its interference in the U.S. election. ...

 

Contrary to the norms of journalism, however, Mr. Assange sometimes obtained such records unethically ... Also unlike real journalists, WikiLeaks dumped material into the public domain without any effort independently to verify its factuality or give named individuals an opportunity to comment. Nor, needless to say, would a real journalist have cooperated with a plot by an authoritarian regime’s intelligence service to harm one U.S. presidential candidate and benefit another.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Delayed said:

I'm not sure why we should be extraditing Asange to the US when they refuse to extradite their diplomat that ran over one of our citizens. 

Exactly.

Extradition is often a one way business when it comes to America.

What he did was right and I wish we had someone over here to reveal a few secrets which our government are keeping from us.

We make so much of Russia, China and North Korea's secretiveness, and we can't even get to know what Johnson's standards minister wrote in his resignation letter.

Nothing ethical about British and American governments.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Organgrinder

[Anna B]

2 hours ago, Hecate said:

The Washington Post didn't think Assange was a hero of the free press when they published this from their editorial board in 2019: Julian Assange is not a free-press hero. And he is long overdue for personal accountability

 

 

 

The Washington Post would say that wouldn't they, when up against the new media which is threatening their autonomy. 

However, having to go through 'legitimate channels' usually reveals 'nothing' and allows government whitewashes to occur on a regular basis. The American journalist who blew the lid on the British MPs Expenses scandal was threatened with Terrorism charges, and she is no longer allowed in this country. Terrorism?

 

Dr David Kelly, the weapons inspector who said the 'weapons of mass destruction' dossier had been 'sexed up' to allow the British to join with the Americans to invade and destroy Iraq, (against much public opposition,) also died in very mysterious circumstances before being brushed under the carpet. Then there was Kashogi, the journalist who was hacked to death in a UAE government building for making claims against the government. Whistle blowers were so persecuted here, that David Cameron made a point of publicly stating they 'would be protected' but unfortunately it never made it into law and never happened so the persecution of the truth tellers continues to this day.

 

Of course Julian Assange is in danger if he returns o the states, the very least of which is not getting a fair trial.

 

Anyone who believes the Government, MI5, CSA  etc never indulge in cover ups, 'black ops' and 'eliminations' are naive to say the least. And the press colludes by biased/ none reporting if required.  As Donald Rumsfeld said, "There are things we know, and things we don't know. Then there are things we know we don't know, and things we don't know we don't know."

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Anna B

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Anna B said:

The Washington Post would say that wouldn't they, when up against the new media which is threatening their autonomy. 

However, having to go through 'legitimate channels' usually reveals 'nothing' and allows government whitewashes to occur on a regular basis. The American journalist who blew the lid on the British MPs Expenses scandal was threatened with Terrorism charges, and she is no longer allowed in this country. Terrorism?

 

Dr David Kelly, the weapons inspector who said the 'weapons of mass destruction' dossier had been 'sexed up' to allow the British to join with the Americans to invade and destroy Iraq, (against much public opposition,) also died in very mysterious circumstances before being brushed under the carpet. Then there was Kashogi, the journalist who was hacked to death in a UAE government building for making claims against the government. Whistle blowers were so persecuted here, that David Cameron made a point of publicly stating they 'would be protected' but unfortunately it never made it into law and never happened so the persecution of the truth tellers continues to this day.

 

Of course Julian Assange is in danger if he returns o the states, the very least of which is not getting a fair trial.

 

Anyone who believes the Government, MI5, CSA  etc never indulge in cover ups, 'black ops' and 'eliminations' are naive to say the least. And the press colludes by biased/ none reporting if required.  As Donald Rumsfeld said, "There are things we know, and things we don't know. Then there are things we know we don't know, and things we don't know we don't know."

 

It's far too hot here to decipher that rats nest of tangents, strawmen and conspiracy theories.  But I did enjoy the diatribe, especially the cameo from Rumsfeld.

[Guest sibon]

16 minutes ago, Hecate said:

It's far too hot here to decipher that rats nest of tangents, strawmen and conspiracy theories.  But I did enjoy the diatribe, especially the cameo from Rumsfeld.

I’m concerned about how they get the hoovering done, given the way that David Kelly was disposed of.

[Jim Hardie]

4 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

we can't even get to know what Johnson's standards minister wrote in his resignation letter.

 

That’s funny, I read it yesterday.

 

In full: Lord Geidt's resignation letter and Boris Johnson's reply https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61824796

Edited June 17, 2022 by Jim Hardie