Mick Lynch Rmt

[fools]

You asked who is going to look at all these photo's, remember.... clearly the idea is a computer sifts out the ones that need human attention.

 

PC, disk space, a few camera's and sensors, couple of grand tops per train.

 

Would you prefer a world where no camera's check the track, you'll just have to wait for a crew to turn up once every couple of years, after their tea break.

 

Car's have been monitoring and logging faults for decades.

Edited June 24, 2022 by fools

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, fools said:

You asked who is going to look at all these photo's, remember.... clearly the idea is a computer sifts out the ones that need human attention.

 

PC, disk space, a few camera's and sensors, couple of grand tops per train.

 

Would you prefer a world where no camera's check the track, you'll just have to wait for a crew to turn up once every couple of years, after their tea break.

 

Car's have been monitoring and logging faults for decades.

And are computers foolproof?  I would not rely on computers alone to keep the public safe at all times. It's bad enough that humans can get it wrong occasionally.

I was talking about the cost of the rover on Mars not sensors on trains

And these cameras, sensors, etc will always work well in the dirtiest of British weather will they?  I recall times  when trains couldn't run because of leaves on the line and the wrong kind of snow.

I prefer a world where any modern affordable device, is used wherever possible to help maintain efficiency and safety ALONG with Skilled human personnel and not INSTEAD of.

Cars have been monitoring and logging faults for decades but their results can be questionable and they still need human input and humans to repair the fault.

How many times have you heard government and large companies make the excuse "It was a computer fault"?

Would you like to hear that excuse when a high speed train crashes at over 200 mph?

 

[ECCOnoob]

23 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Because, as I said, computers can't do everything.

Let me know when you have your car serviced  at a garage, by a computer instead of a human.

That's ONE rover on ONE planet moving very slowly and taking all the time it needs to collect a few bits of rock.

Find out how much that costs.  I thought the idea was to save money.

We have more than one train running at once down here.

Please don't let your name mislead you.

Nobody is saying computers will do everything. Nobody is saying it's going to eradicate all human involvement. But you can't be so naive to think that things don't change, staffing levels on certain tasks reduce or that things don't evolve.

 

You might be astounded to know at many aspects of a modern day car service or MOT  involve computerised measuring, diagnostics, analysing and scanning.

 

There are dozens of aspects of modern life that used to require vast amounts of Manpower which is now done perfectly well, efficiently and safely buy computerised methods and just a handful of staff.  The rest move on to different things, learn new skills and adopt the use of new technology.

 

Without it we will still be running the age of steam, with our hand written paper tickets and manually controlled signal boxes.

[L00b]

45 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Because, as I said, computers can't do everything.

Let me know when you have your car serviced  at a garage, by a computer instead of a human.

That's ONE rover on ONE planet moving very slowly and taking all the time it needs to collect a few bits of rock.

Find out how much that costs.  I thought the idea was to save money.

We have more than one train running at once down here.

Please don't let your name mislead you.

Given suitable sensor readings and input, computers can at least record where platelayers tighten nuts and bolts, when and by how much, and correlate that to track age, location, usage pattern, historical weather data <etc> to predict (no guarantee, but indicate/suggest with confidence interval) where to tighten the <next> set of nuts and bolts and when (maybe even how much, subject to data granularity and volume).
 

That’s wholly distinct from optical/image pattern recognition-based technologies, of course. But complementary/no less important. And it’s not designed to replace platelayers, just to use their time more effectively (…which may mean, that fewer of them are required in total).

 

That’s just the way of our technological world I’m afraid. It was no different for e.g. harvest labourers 2 centuries ago, when steam driven harvesting machinery started getting introduced.

 

Back on topic. Mick Lynch is certainly an impressive orator. Calm, precise, consistent, clear and to the point. You can tell he’s not running for office and doesn’t owe this politician or that billionaire a favour or ten, so can speak truth to power all day long. Truly delighted at seeing him kicking emperor-clothing politicians and pundits’ @rses and taking names.

Edited June 24, 2022 by L00b

[fools]

11 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

And are computers foolproof?  I would not rely on computers alone to keep the public safe at all times. It's bad enough that humans can get it wrong occasionally.

I was talking about the cost of the rover on Mars not sensors on trains

And these cameras, sensors, etc will always work well in the dirtiest of British weather will they?  I recall times  when trains couldn't run because of leaves on the line and the wrong kind of snow.

I prefer a world where any modern affordable device, is used wherever possible to help maintain efficiency and safety ALONG with Skilled human personnel and not INSTEAD of.

Cars have been monitoring and logging faults for decades but their results can be questionable and they still need human input and humans to repair the fault.

How many times have you heard government and large companies make the excuse "It was a computer fault"?

Would you like to hear that excuse when a high speed train crashes at over 200 mph?

 

You appear stuck in a groove. The camera's are an aid to identity problems that humans haven't identified, before an accident happens. Then the humans get involved.

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by fools

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, L00b said:

Given suitable sensor readings and input, computers can at least record where platelayers tighten nuts and bolts, when and by how much, and correlate that to track age, location, usage pattern, historical weather data <etc> to predict (no guarantee, but indicate/suggest) where to tighten the <next> set of nuts and bolts, when (maybe even how much, subject to data granularity and volume).
 

That’s wholly distinct from optical/image pattern recognition-based technologies, of course. But complementary/no less important. And it’s not designed to replace platelayers, just to use their time more effectively (…which may mean, that fewer of them are required in total).

 

That’s just the way of our technological world I’m afraid. It was no different for e.g. harvest labourers 2 centuries ago, when steam driven harvesting machinery started getting introduced.

Yes, we know what computers CAN do.  What computers WILL do in real life is a different matter and, as you say yourself, no guarantee.

Sooner be it your head than mine.

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Organgrinder

[ECCOnoob]

16 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

And are computers foolproof?  I would not rely on computers alone to keep the public safe at all times. It's bad enough that humans can get it wrong occasionally.

I was talking about the cost of the rover on Mars not sensors on trains

And these cameras, sensors, etc will always work well in the dirtiest of British weather will they?  I recall times  when trains couldn't run because of leaves on the line and the wrong kind of snow.

I prefer a world where any modern affordable device, is used wherever possible to help maintain efficiency and safety ALONG with Skilled human personnel and not INSTEAD of.

Cars have been monitoring and logging faults for decades but their results can be questionable and they still need human input and humans to repair the fault.

How many times have you heard government and large companies make the excuse "It was a computer fault"?

Would you like to hear that excuse when a high speed train crashes at over 200 mph?

Oh take your tin foil hat off you hysteric.

 

You talk about real life.  Right now, computers are keeping your lights on, your water flowing, your gas circulated, your internet and telephones working, your television and radio broadcasting, your supermarket shelf stocked with food, your pubs stocked with beer and stopping planes from falling out the sky and landing on your bonce.

 

Yes of course all of that has some level of human involvement, but in modern society, and it has been for over 50-years, the vast majority of those humans would not be able to do their job and run without computer control nor do they all necessarily require the same amount of Manpower as previously.

 

Grow up. You talk as if the implementation of these new practises are going to eradicate entire safety inspections, controlling, auditing, analysis. They don't chuck out these things on some whim. They take years of development and fine-tuning and testing and approval before they are implemented.

 

Given the green light for completely self-driving cars is coming ever closer, you really ought to stay indoors as clearly you won't feel safe anywhere thanks that evil despicable silicone chip eh?  

 

With a thinking like yours you must be a union man's wet dream they could chuck any old fodder to justify clinging on to outdated methods, unnecessary job roles and refusals to embrace change and people like you must lap it up.

Edited June 24, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[hackey lad]

4 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Oh take your tin foil hat off you hysteric.

 

You talk about real life.  Right now, computers are keeping your lights on, your water flowing, your gas circulated, your internet and telephones working, your television and radio broadcasting, your supermarket shelf stocked with food, your pubs stocked with beer and stopping planes from falling out the sky and landing on your bonce.

 

Yes of course all of that has some level of human involvement, but in modern society, and it has been for over 50-years, the vast majority of those humans would not be able to do their job and run without computer control nor do they all necessarily require the same amount of Manpower as previously.

 

Grow up. You talk as if the implementation of these new practises are going to eradicate entire safety inspections, controlling, auditing, analysis. They don't chuck out these things on some whim. They take years of development and fine-tuning and testing and approval before they are implemented.

 

Given the green light for completely self-driving cars is coming ever closer, you really ought to stay indoors as clearly you won't feel safe anywhere thanks that evil despicable silicone chip eh?  

 

With a thinking like yours you must be a union man's wet dream they could chuck any old fodder to justify clinging on to outdated methods, unnecessary job roles and refusals to embrace change and people like you must lap it up.

Last paragraph is spot on  

[Bargepole23]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

Computers are not new fangled things.  I was programming them in the 80's.

So computers can tighten nuts & bolts up can they? 

Have you any idea what a platelayers job consists of?

Computers can do many things but not everything.

Accountants  (and government ministers)  may not know that but railwaymen will.

That's the problem with this rail argument - half of them don't know what they are talking about and the other half tend to be stuck in the past.

It just needs someone with intelligence plus knowledge.

 

Designing a thing to travel along the tracks and torque checking and recording the position and torque of nuts and bolts would be well within the capabilities of an industrial automation company.

 

And would be more reliable and repeatable.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Bargepole23

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, fools said:

You appear stuck in a groove. The camera's are an aid to identity problems that humans haven't identified, before an accident happens. Then the humans get involved.

 

Read my text again!

I already said that they should be used along with human but not instead of.

The rail bosses want to stop human track inspection and sack most of the track maintenance workers and use technology,  and my view is that they are inviting disaster.

Then there is the problem that nobody can buy a ticket without a computer that can go online.

5 minutes ago, Bargepole23 said:

Designing a thing to travel along the tracks and torque checking and recording the position and torque of nuts and bolts would be well within the capabilities of an industrial automation company.

Well, let us see one first Eh?

I am not saying that it will never be done.

I am saying that they cannot do it now.

This is like the talk of the electric aeroplanes that we are going to use to go on holiday without pollution.

You may believe all the government kidology but I don't.

Especially from those liars.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Organgrinder