Who Is Poor?

[El Cid]

25 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

I can't see why going abroad, or not,  defines whether you are poor or not.

This is an example of the generalisation of everything nowadays.
I am not poor but I have never been abroad in my life.

The reason why?   I have never wanted to.

I live in a country which offers beauty of all kinds.

So how do you define poor?

If some in that 8% of the never been abroad are not poor, so 7% or less are poor.

[trastrick]

9 minutes ago, gamezone07 said:

I was waiting for that, still doesn't negate the evidence base.

Time to look at the "evidence" base you mention, then,  For the root cause?

 

[El Cid]

1 hour ago, abbeyedges said:

 

I have no idea how many should be seen as 'living in poverty' and / or 'are vulnerable' but in my opinion there are many who have been given these labels when in fact they are more than capable of looking after themselves.

We once looked after each other, those deemed vulnerable are now looked after by the state.

That can be a good thing, but it makes people lazy and they lack direction. Working on the side would be fraud if undeclared.

Edited September 11, 2022 by El Cid

[Guest]

1 minute ago, El Cid said:

So how do you define poor?

If some in that 8% of the never been abroad are not poor, so 7% or less are poor.

There is no need to define  how many are poor at all, unless you are one of the few who wants to do something to help them.

Defining the poor is something like defining the social classes so that people can look down on those beneath them.

Unless you know for definite that the 8% is correct, then the 7% cannot be but does it matter, and if so,  to whom?

[Baron99]

Food banks have now been in operation for a number of years. It must be at least 6 years since I recall them being mentioned in the media.  Now at that time, they appeared to be used only by those on benefits who had been referred to them.  Now it seems that anyone can just turn up at a food bank & take stuff, (sometimes I believe a small financial contribution might be made?) to supplement their food stocks.

 

In recent months I've seen on tv news reports claiming that it is now not just the 'poor' that need the food banks but also those in work.  A number of times I've heard mention that this includes NHS nursing staff.  A newly qualified Band 5 NHS nurse now earns £27,055 per year. 

 

I'm sorry, someone earning £27k per year will be taking home around £22k per year after tax, much more than your average pensioner will have to live on or those on benefits.  So unless you're trying to live in central London, £22k should be sufficient to live on without resorting to a food bank. 

 

Those that do are clearly taking the 'P' & also taking food from the mouths of those in greater need. 

[HeHasRisen]

2 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

Food banks have now been in operation for a number of years. It must be at least 6 years since I recall them being mentioned in the media.  Now at that time, they appeared to be used only by those on benefits who had been referred to them.  Now it seems that anyone can just turn up at a food bank & take stuff, (sometimes I believe a small financial contribution might be made?) to supplement their food stocks.

 

In recent months I've seen on tv news reports claiming that it is now not just the 'poor' that need the food banks but also those in work.  A number of times I've heard mention that this includes NHS nursing staff.  A newly qualified Band 5 NHS nurse now earns £27,055 per year. 

 

I'm sorry, someone earning £27k per year will be taking home around £22k per year after tax, much more than your average pensioner will have to live on or those on benefits.  So unless you're trying to live in central London, £22k should be sufficient to live on without resorting to a food bank. 

 

Those that do are clearly taking the 'P' & also taking food from the mouths of those in greater need. 

Have you accounted for pension contributions?

[harvey19]

47 minutes ago, gamezone07 said:

Social Mobility is much harder to achieve these days, in fact  there is evidence that for some people it is going backwards, middle class slipping into working class, and of course whe  you are disabled/sick  plenty of middle class there strugging to survive.

Social mobility has never been easier than nowadays from what I see.

Where there is a will there is a way.

 

[Baron99]

6 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

Have you accounted for pension contributions?

The £22k would be a rough figure based on tax to be paid but let's presume & be generous & say someone pays 2k a year into their pension pot.  That's still £20k after tax. 

 

People earning £20k should not be using food banks.   They need to review their finances & cut their cloth accordingly. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Baron99

[trastrick]

17 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

Food banks have now been in operation for a number of years. It must be at least 6 years since I recall them being mentioned in the media.  Now at that time, they appeared to be used only by those on benefits who had been referred to them.  Now it seems that anyone can just turn up at a food bank & take stuff, (sometimes I believe a small financial contribution might be made?) to supplement their food stocks.

 

In recent months I've seen on tv news reports claiming that it is now not just the 'poor' that need the food banks but also those in work.  A number of times I've heard mention that this includes NHS nursing staff.  A newly qualified Band 5 NHS nurse now earns £27,055 per year. 

 

I'm sorry, someone earning £27k per year will be taking home around £22k per year after tax, much more than your average pensioner will have to live on or those on benefits.  So unless you're trying to live in central London, £22k should be sufficient to live on without resorting to a food bank. 

 

Those that do are clearly taking the 'P' & also taking food from the mouths of those in greater need. 

And this is your much vaunted welfare state.

 

Failing at all levels, to hear tell, and even after borrowing all the money to pay for it.

 

The bills are coming due, the chicken's are coming home to roost, and as Maggie said, "it's all good until they run out of othe people's money"! or some such.

 

But that's Socialism for you.

 

It's not like you weren't warned.

 

You sorely need to live within your means.

 

Maybe Denmark and Sweden could show you how?

Edited September 11, 2022 by trastrick

[Dromedary]

1 hour ago, abbeyedges said:

There are two new phrases -

 

'those that are living in poverty' and 'those that are vulnerable'.

What is not mentioned though is poverty is now normally measured in relative terms and not actual terms.

 

"Households are considered to be below the UK poverty line if their income is 60% below the median household income after housing costs for that year." The median now is around £31,400.

 

Based on that it does not mean people are actually poor as such.

 

35 minutes ago, trastrick said:

....

Maybe Denmark and Sweden could show you how?

It's easy, all we need to do is increase income and VAT taxation to the same levels that they have and its sorted.