Who Is Poor?

[El Cid]

14 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

You have purposely not answered whether Boris and his government are socialists and you are still pretending, as Tories do, that only Labour runs up debts.

Tories are meant to favour small government, yet we are taxing/borrowing/spending record amounts. Perhaps that is people think Johnson is a socialist?

Truss has stressed about tax cuts and that is what she believes in, yet just spent massive sums on our energy bills.

[AndrewC]

23 hours ago, El Cid said:

I attended a quiz at a local pub. One of the questions was how many people living in the UK have never been abroad.

The answer was 8% of the population. I am not sure I agree with this figure. Google it and it's written about in the Daily Mail.

It got me thinking about how we measure poverty. Has anyone got a more reliable figure than 8%?

Millions of people go abroad on holiday every year, so all of those people cannot be considered poor.

Can a person that has two or more children be poor, surely if they don't have two children unless they can afford to care for them. 

 

You can't assume that 8% figure means that 92% are going abroad a) regularly, and/or b) any time recently.

 

There are potentially a whole host of 30, 40, 50 somethings who went abroad as a child with their family who in their adult life have never had the means to do so.

 

Equally, not every trip abroad is 'expensive' in relative terms. Whilst you might not expect people in destitution to be going on holiday, it's not unthinkable that people whose lives are generally spent keeping their heads just above the water - that we might consider 'poor' - might occasionally muster enough funds for a very cheap trip abroad. Not sure about right now, but before covid you could pick up ridiculously cheap flights or ferry tickets to places abroad.

 

[Dromedary]

11 hours ago, Anna B said:

I've just googled 'child poverty' 

According to this, there are 4.3 UK children living in poverty.  That's 30% or 9 kids in every class of 30.

....

Is that relative poverty or absolute poverty as there is a big difference in the two?

 

Poverty in India, Pakistan and Africa for instance is absolute poverty where people are starving because of it, don't have proper housing or sanitation and don't even have clean fresh water on tap. Now compare that to what is called poverty in the UK, see the difference?

 

Just to add, although I have already mentioned it before, also from a quick google a quote from Action For Children Org:

 

 

How is child poverty defined in the UK?

A child is considered to be growing up in poverty if they live in a household whose income is below 60% of the average (median) income for that year. This is called 'relative poverty'. Data on relative child poverty is available both before and after housing costs are taken into account.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Dromedary

[Mister M]

1 hour ago, Dromedary said:

Is that relative poverty or absolute poverty as there is a big difference in the two?

 

Poverty in India, Pakistan and Africa for instance is absolute poverty where people are starving because of it, don't have proper housing or sanitation and don't even have clean fresh water on tap. Now compare that to what is called poverty in the UK, see the difference?

 

Just to add, although I have already mentioned it before, also from a quick google a quote from Action For Children Org:

 

 

How is child poverty defined in the UK?

A child is considered to be growing up in poverty if they live in a household whose income is below 60% of the average (median) income for that year. This is called 'relative poverty'. Data on relative child poverty is available both before and after housing costs are taken into account.

I'm glad you brought that up here, because most often when discussions of international aid are put to the members of the public, there will  be the usual complaint that we should look after the most needy in this country first

I wonder if there is a correlation between those who say that we should look after the most needy in this country first, and those who point out that poverty is much worse for people on the continents of Africa and Asia?

Edited September 12, 2022 by Mister M

[gamezone07]

Lots of populists on here

 

strange when sheffield is massively a labour/green city

[Dromedary]

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

I'm glad you brought that up here, because most often when discussions of international aid are put to the members of the public, there will  be the usual complaint that we should look after the most needy in this country first

I wonder if there is a correlation between those who say that we should look after the most needy in this country first, and those who point out that poverty is much worse for people on the continents of Africa and Asia?

The problems of starvation in the continents of Africa and Asia can be solved in part by their own Nations. As others have already pointed out a lot of the problems in those areas have been caused in part by corruption, wars ( including religious ones), lack of foresight, and lack of investment in the people because funding is being diverted into other areas. We can help but funding is not just a bottomless pit that we just toss money into. We have had several charity funding initiatives to try and help, live aid etc, but nothing seems to change. 

 

We should look after the most needy in this country first but those countries that do suffer from real poverty should also be looking after their own most needy first as well and not spending money on long term needless wars. Until those ways stop it will just become an endless begging game.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Dromedary

[HeHasRisen]

A five page thread based on someone totally interpreting a stat incorrectly.  Welcome to Sheffield Forum.

[Mister M]

3 hours ago, HumbleNarrator said:

Sheffield is only "massively green" in the middle class ponce areas.

Oooh, edgy comment!

[El Cid]

4 hours ago, HeHasRisen said:

A five page thread based on someone totally interpreting a stat incorrectly.  Welcome to Sheffield Forum.

Quite happy for people to post alternative definitions of poverty, those without cars and smartphones?

As I have stated, I earn less than £20k, which by some definitions is poverty wages.

I have been abroad twice, my 22 year old son just once. We both have cars and smartphones, so I would say, not in poverty 

[HeHasRisen]

1 minute ago, El Cid said:

Quite happy for people to post alternative definitions of poverty, those without cars and smartphones?

As I have stated, I earn less than £20k, which by some definitions is poverty wages.

I have been abroad twice, my 22 year old son just once. We both have cars and smartphones, so I would say, not in poverty 

In which case you are both not in the 8% mentioned in your opening post. Well done, by your initial definition you are not "poor".

Edited September 12, 2022 by HeHasRisen