Dromedary Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 57 minutes ago, Padders said: It's to complicated for me Anna, what baffles me, And I've said it many times, there is no shortage of money to fund these wars. When it comes down to investing in the NHS, teachers, transport, pensions, etc. We can't afford it comes the cry? That is because the arms manufacturers are the ones who gain from them. We are supporting The Ukraine to the tune of £2.3b so far and that will only rise as the armaments are used and subsequently replaced making good profits for the armament makers. The latest news is that Putin allegedly supplied the missile system to the Ukraine separatists that shot down flight MH17 over Ukraine in 2014. If Putin is being held to account for that then the West should also be held to account for the many lives lost because the West is supplying armaments and missiles to The Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Anna B said: It should never have come to war in the first place. A peaceful solution, signed by both parties, was negotiated before the actual fighting began. It was NATO that stepped in and vetoed it so it couldn't go ahead, and the fighting started. This conflict will ultimately end round the negotiating table. That's where it should have started, and thousands of lives saved. Utter nonsense, as usual. That peaceful solution was signed by all the parties, as the Budapest Memorandum in 1994. Russia, a signatory, has been p***ing all over it for 8 years. The co-signatories, namely the US and the UK, did not get involved until Russia invaded last year. Only from afar, at that, by supplying weapons and aid, and taking in refugees. I’ve no doubt the conflict will eventually end around a table. Even WW2 did, both in Europe and in Asia. For the rest of it, nobody this side of the Russian border ever put a gun to Putin or the Russians’ heads before February 2022. Putin’s been free to get his war toys back in his box at any time since then. Now as you’re so concerned about saving lives, why don’t you get yourself over to the Kremlin and get working on Putin fast? Last I checked, it’s still his guys doing the invading, destructing, raping, murdering, kidnapping, (…) in Ukraine, not Ukrainians doing any of that in Russia. Edited February 9, 2023 by L00b 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 14 minutes ago, Anna B said: This was aggravated by Nato getting involved. Can you substantiate this aggravation, or did you make it up? 14 minutes ago, Anna B said: Whether Zalensky asked Nato or Nato volunteered help I don't know, but there's little doubt getting a foothold right up on Russia's border suited Nato just fine as it brings Russia in range of their weapons, (think Cuba and the bay of Pigs) and ****** off Putin. Am sure it would, that doesn't change the reality that NATO can't do anything unless Ukraine asks. 14 minutes ago, Anna B said: He doesn't want Nato on his borders or within range anymore than Kennedy wanted missiles in Cuba aimed at America in 1962. And if Ukraine try to join Nato Putin says he will consider it an act of War. Well then he's scored a spectacular own goal since both Finland, and Sweden, have applied to join and will be members soon. Potential NATO expansion is not the reason Russia invaded... wasn't in 2014, isn't now. 14 minutes ago, Anna B said: As I said before, without the supply of weapons, this can and should be decided round a negotiated settlement. OK Neville, if you say so. 3 minutes ago, Dromedary said: If Putin is being held to account for that then the West should also be held to account for the many lives lost because the West is supplying armaments and missiles to The Ukraine. A false equivalence... if those armaments had been used to shoot down a civilian airliner... they well might be! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Dromedary said: That is because the arms manufacturers are the ones who gain from them. We are supporting The Ukraine to the tune of £2.3b so far and that will only rise as the armaments are used and subsequently replaced making good profits for the armament makers. The latest news is that Putin allegedly supplied the missile system to the Ukraine separatists that shot down flight MH17 over Ukraine in 2014. If Putin is being held to account for that then the West should also be held to account for the many lives lost because the West is supplying armaments and missiles to The Ukraine. MH17 was a civilian, non-Ukrainian airliner. Russia has been found guilty of supplying the missile and controlling the shooters at the time. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63637625 Now, that restated for context, let’s see you expand on the logic behind that notion in bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dromedary Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, L00b said: MH17 was a civilian, non-Ukrainian airliner. And that make a difference how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trastrick Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 18 minutes ago, L00b said: There’s no such thing as ‘NATO weapons'. Utter nonsense! Your juvenile armchair warmongering propaganda has no credibility here, until you read up on the basic issues in this conflict. Was it inevitable? A short history of Russia's war on Ukraine https://www.theguardian.com › world › mar › was-it-in... Mar 11, 2022 — Get the Guardian's award-winning long reads sent direct to you every Saturday ... There were now Nato weapons and Nato personnel in Ukraine. US to send Ukraine small drones and armoured Humvees https://www.theguardian.com › world › mar › us-aid-u... Mar 11, 2015 — US to send Ukraine small drones and armoured Humvees ... Despite that staff Russians can't seize all those NATO weapons and show it. List of foreign aid to Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › List_of_foreign_aid_to_... Countries sending foreign aid, including humanitarian aid to Ukraine. In total aid (military, financial and ... "NATO weapons boost for Ukraine". Sky News. Russian Invasion: Ukraine calls for more powerful defense ... https://guardian.ng › features › russian-invasion-ukrain... Jul 28, 2022 — Supplies of modern, high-precision and efficient NATO weapons and ammunition must be accelerated. The sooner we receive at least parity in ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dromedary said: And that make a difference how? Can you point me to civilians who have been killed in Russia by western-supplied weapons handled by Ukrainians? https://bitterwinter.org/donbass-did-ukraine-kill-14000-pro-russians/ 8 minutes ago, trastrick said: Utter nonsense! Your juvenile armchair warmongering propaganda has no credibility here, until you read up on the basic issues in this conflict. (…) Oh yeah? So, err…where’s that WW3 of yours, then? Let’s see you do at least a little of what you preach, eh? Edited February 9, 2023 by L00b 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dromedary Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, L00b said: Can you point me to civilians who have been killed in Russia by western-supplied weapons handled by Ukrainians? And I ask again... And that makes a difference how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trastrick Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, L00b said: Oh yeah? So, err…where’s that WW3 of yours, then? Let’s see you do at least a little of what you preach, eh? Another juvenile analysis of the war in Ukraine! Take a deep breath, and count to ten! Edited February 9, 2023 by trastrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Just now, Dromedary said: And I ask again... And that makes a difference how? And you can ask however many times again… If you don’t understand how your argument of “holding the west to account for weapons supplied to Ukraine (to repel Russian invaders) if Putin is held to account for the MH17 missile (used to kill foreign civilians)” fails because the facts underlying the respective situations make your argument a false equivalence (as already pointed out to you by another poster), I can’t really help you further I’m afraid. 2 minutes ago, trastrick said: Another juvenile analysis of the war in Ukraine! Take a deep breath, and count to ten! About as juvenile as your earlier “if NATO weapons are used to attack Russian territory then WW3”, when it’s perfectly and factually established that your ‘NATO weapons’ have been doing exactly that for months already 🙄 😘 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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