Putin Threatens The West

[L00b]

1 hour ago, Dromedary said:

Wow such absolute arrogance, but I think many on here already know that as it does seems to be the norm coming from you.

I’m always happy to dish it back, humpy, you know that well 😘

1 hour ago, Dromedary said:

Why a trial? Putin did not commit war crimes (MH17) in mind, as he did not order the plane to be shot down. Even the Judge in that article you linked to stated :

 

"...it was a deliberate action to bring down a plane, even though the three found guilty had intended to shoot down a military not a civilian aircraft."

 

It is also possible that if the three Russians who were found guilty in absentia had actually been represented at the trial they too could have been found not guilty just like the Russian who was represented.

 

So we now know, it was not a deliberate attempt to shoot down a civilian plane (MH17), it was a bad mistake and the subsequent disaster was not actually sanctioned by Putin. He may have given them the missiles but just as the West have given Ukraine missiles he was not directly responsible on how they are used, just like we are not responsible for how the Ukrainian's will use the ones we give them. 

 

Was that the sort of logic you were talking about....

Yes indeed, I was trying to get you to state your Putin-supporting ‘logic’ out in the clear.

 

“Yes, now you see, I did give that gun to the child, and yes I did show him how to hold it and point it…but it was a complete accident that he ended up shooting and killing that passer-by, nowt to do with me Guv”

 

Perfectly ‘logic’, very convincing.

 

Many thanks for obliging, ‘many on here’ know where you stand indeed 😁
 

(Oh, about that false equivalence, before I forget: you haven’t accepted or rejected whether Russian soldiers’ deaths from Western weapons operated by Ukrainians at war, are the same as airliner passengers’ death from Putin’s BUK operated by separatists or little green Russian men. Now that’s the whole point of your Putin/West equivalence (else why hold the west to account at all? 🤨) In your own time)

Edited February 9, 2023 by L00b

[trastrick]

21 hours ago, altus said:

My suspicions don't need to concern you. But as far as Putin and his claims about territory that is now part of Russia goes, Ukraine are already using NATO country supplied weapons to attack Russia.

 

So, where do you think your “if NATO weapons are used to attack Russian territory then WW3” fits in with that exactly?

It's a Biden quote. See below;

 

The U.S. has gone to great lengths to assure Putin that the West has NO intention on declaring war on Russia.

 

https://youtu.be/rA3n2Zl18E0

 

https://youtu.be/_8zTCvrowmk

 

The Guardian

Biden says sending tanks is 'no offensive threat' to Russia

 

There is “no offensive threat” to Russia, Biden says, adding that western support for Kyiv is about “helping Ukraine defend and protect Ukrainian land”.

 

So, the limited range weapons he is shipping to Ukraine are designed to constrain the war to Ukrainian territory by Ukrainian troops.

 

As Biden makes clear in the above statements::

 

"But, look! The idea that we are going to send in offensive equipment and have planes and tanks going in with American pilots and crews  Just understand, don't kid yourself that, no matter what y'all say, that's called World War Three!"

 

So. Zelenskyy's hands are effectively tied from  prosecuting an offensive war against Russia on Russian territory, and Zelenskyy has gone to great pains complain to the West on that issue! He is limited to fighting a defensive war on Ukrainian territory. That strategy is now being questioned as the war grinds on with no end in sight.

 

And Ukraine is left alone to pay the price.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by trastrick

[Magilla]

15 hours ago, Dromedary said:

No its not as I have just explained.

If western weapons were used to shoot down a civilian airliner, regardless of how it happened... there would be some accountability.

 

As such, not only is it a completely false equivalence, the original assertion... that the west wouldn't in some way be held accountable in that circumstance... is itself a nonsense.

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Magilla

[Magilla]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

As Biden makes clear in the above statements::

 

"But, look! The idea that we are going to send in offensive equipment and have planes and tanks going in with American pilots and crews  Just understand, don't kid yourself that, no matter what y'all say, that's called World War Three!"

 

Has sending American pilots been proposed at all?

 

Quote

So. Zelenskyy's hands are effectively tied from  prosecuting an offensive war against Russia on Russian territory, and Zelenskyy has gone to great pains complain to the West on that issue!

Has he?

 

When was that?

 

Quote

He is limited to fighting a defensive war on Ukrainian territory. That strategy is now being questioned as the war grinds on with no end in sight.

 

And Ukraine is left alone to pay the price.

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Magilla

[Dromedary]

17 hours ago, L00b said:

I’m always happy to dish it back, humpy, you know that well 😘

Yes indeed, I was trying to get you to state your Putin-supporting ‘logic’ out in the clear.

 

“Yes, now you see, I did give that gun to the child, and yes I did show him how to hold it and point it…but it was a complete accident that he ended up shooting and killing that passer-by, nowt to do with me Guv”

And there was me thinking you actually knew about the law! What was that about false equivalence...😘

 

As you already know, in law the person that pulled the trigger and did the killing is the person responsible. What next from you.... A car manufacturer being responsible for a car crash by a drunk driver that killed someone! Or maybe the company that produced the alcohol being held responsible as well. 

 

17 hours ago, L00b said:

...

Many thanks for obliging, ‘many on here’ know where you stand indeed 😁

Arrogance again.... Even you don't know where I stand and just guess.

 

But just to add....

 

I am against any type of warfare be it terrorism or any other and I am against arms manufacturing. Unlike you who is for the former and probably has shares in the latter. 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Dromedary
did a slinny

[altus]

4 hours ago, trastrick said:

It's a Biden quote. See below;

It's not a Biden quote at all.

 

Quote

"But, look! The idea that we are going to send in offensive equipment and have planes and tanks going in with American pilots and crews  Just understand, don't kid yourself that, no matter what y'all say, that's called World War Three!"

I've highlighted the crucially important bit that you chose to ignore in your misrepresentation of what Biden said.

[L00b]

2 hours ago, Dromedary said:

And there was me thinking you actually knew about the law! What was that about false equivalence...😘

 

As you already know, in law the person that pulled the trigger and did the killing is the person responsible. What next from you.... A car manufacturer being responsible for a car crash by a drunk driver that killed someone! Or maybe the company that produced the alcohol being held responsible as well. 

Keep those false equivalences coming, looks like you're overstocked 

2 hours ago, Dromedary said:

Even you don't know where I stand and just guess.

There's no guessing required.

 

Ukraine is in a fight for its existence: anyone two-siding this conflict over idealistic notions, when they are not buying into anti-western propaganda 'for reasons' outright, is abetting Russia by omission.

2 hours ago, Dromedary said:

I am against any type of warfare be it terrorism or any other and I am against arms manufacturing. Unlike you who is for the former and probably has shares in the latter. 

Bit in bold: good for you.  And I mean that, no sarcasm.

 

But fat lot of good for the Ukrainians under attack from Russia.

 

I am not 'for' warfare either. But I am 'for' peoples' right to self-determination and, as part and parcel of that, their right to defend themselves from foreign aggression. Turning the other cheek never worked with any imperialist, since the year dot: it just encourages them.

[Dromedary]

45 minutes ago, L00b said:

Keep those false equivalences coming, looks like you're overstocked 

I'm just matching your overstocked ones that all... 

 

45 minutes ago, L00b said:

There's no guessing required.

You know me so well, just like I know you to be a war monger. 

 

45 minutes ago, L00b said:

Ukraine is in a fight for its existence: anyone two-siding this conflict over idealistic notions, when they are not buying into anti-western propaganda 'for reasons' outright, is abetting Russia by omission.

Ahh, the old "you are either with us, or against us" argument....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_are_either_with_us,_or_against_us

 

Sorry but that does not work.

 

45 minutes ago, L00b said:

Bit in bold: good for you.  And I mean that, no sarcasm.

 

45 minutes ago, L00b said:

But fat lot of good for the Ukrainians under attack from Russia.

 

I am not 'for' warfare either.

That's obviously a joke comment after reading what you have been saying.

 

45 minutes ago, L00b said:

But I am 'for' peoples' right to self-determination and, as part and parcel of that, their right to defend themselves from foreign aggression. Turning the other cheek never worked with any imperialist, since the year dot: it just encourages them.

And making armaments for profit to enable that warfare also encourages more of the same.

 

On a side note.... One thing I have noticed that is interesting though is that Magilla and you must be close buddies as you both seem to post in the same threads and back each other up as well, is she your Mrs?

[Padders]

Do sanctions work?

It seems to me that they make no difference at all to this dreadful war.

If that's the case, why do they bother.

[L00b]

32 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

That's obviously a joke comment after reading what you have been saying.

Hardly. But then I don’t expect a militant pacifist (ha!) to ever acknowledge that freedom sometimes needs to be fought for, when all other avenues have failed. 

44 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

Ahh, the old "you are either with us, or against us" argument....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_are_either_with_us,_or_against_us

Where a conflict is so clear cut as imperialist, barbaric, genocidal Russia attacking democracy- and western values-aspiring Ukraine, absolutely.
 

Doesn’t work for you?
 

So f***** what: have you asked a Ukrainian lately? Or your elders about 70 years ago?

47 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

On a side note.... One thing I have noticed that is interesting though is that Magilla and you must be close buddies as you both seem to post in the same threads and back each other up as well, is she your Mrs?

I think we’re very like minded. A strong interest in current affairs, and a strong exception to arrant cretins 👍🏻