Guest Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, cuttsie said: No need for the loopy bit , people who do that cause wars . Indeed they do. And you can be assured that the likes of Johnson, Sunak and all the guys with a lot of brave shout, will not be on the front line if it starts, but down a very deep bunker somewhere whilst the MEN are fighting. They should remember that we are a lesser part of "The West" and not the leader in chief. Russia already hates us more than the rest of the western alliance including the USA, so they should think on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Organgrinder said: I think you will find that Putin will decide what are NATO weapons , not you. I'm sure that he will decide that western made or supplied weapons will be NATO weapons. Crimea, Donetsk, Donbas: ARE NOT Russian territory. They may be designated by Russian law that way but they are countries in their own right although, how you convince Putin of that, I don't know. You are well known for correcting everything that other posters say so you need to think about what you write. With respect, I think you'll find I'm well aware of all that. I don't correct posters who post facts, I debate their interpretation of those with them. That's what this forum, and any other forum for discussion, digital or not, is all about. What I "correct", is what I perceive as disinformation, regurgitated or otherwise. And God knows there's heaps of the stuff spouted by all sorts for the past decade, ramped up to the n-th power since Russia's war of aggression started last year. Currently, Putin very clearly chooses to not see western-made or -supplied weapons as 'NATO' weapons, nor to do anything about US-supplied targeting intelligence fed to Ukraine. He knows perfectly well that if the US and allies go all in, either he'll end up like Saddam /Gadhafi, or we'll all end up glowing in the dark. Because what Russia has demonstrated over the last year, is that it is utterly incapable of matching western prowess in combined arms warfare as seen in Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, <...>. Fighting insurgents and "winning the war", is where the west fails time and again, not least because the US never knows when to stop (freeing Kuwait should have been 'it', back in the 90s). But fighting a conventional army...it'd a guaranteed slam dunk, Russia's army would be steamrolled within a few weeks. Putin can't risk things coming to that, if he wants to last in power. Even 'losing' the Ukrainian war is not certain to see him toppled, so strong is his authoritarian grip on Russian politics and people. But doing anything bad enough to provoke the West (or 'NATO', however you want call it) into actual action, and he'd be gone. 'NATO' is a red herring in that overall context, has been ever since before the Ukraine-Russia conflict started in 2014. It's a defensive pact of European nations started in the post-WW2 days of the USSR, which pre-dates the Russian Federation by decades, of which Ukraine is not part, nor was about to join in 2022. NATO was never about to invade the USSR BITD, and it still isn't today: it's sole reason for existence has always been to prepare for and stop the USSR if it should decide to rolli across eastern europe towards western europe. But it features heavily in Russian propaganda, and has done likewise for decades since long before the Russian Federation was a thing. Catch Russian TV and they're spouting outlandish propaganda against 'NATO' every single day. That disinformation above? It's what Putin's government has been serving Russian across the state's MSM for years and longer, the whole Russian population bar perhaps intellectual elites in Moscow and St Petersburg is gaslit up to their eyeballs with it and believes NATO paratroopers are going to land and break down their front doors next week. I don't see why posters spouting the same rubbish on here for reasons best known to themselves, accessorily turning SF into yet another Russian propaganda outlet, should get a free pass. Now if that makes me arrogant or getting "well known for correcting everything that other posters say", then hey, so what. Edited February 12, 2023 by L00b 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollingJ Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 @L00b- you'll never convince some, it almost seems as though they would welcome Putin in through the front door - for reasons which are totally beyond me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_DADDY Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, RollingJ said: @L00b- you'll never convince some, it almost seems as though they would welcome Putin in through the front door - for reasons which are totally beyond me. Oh behave 🤣 13 hours ago, Jim Hardie said: Does anybody else find it difficult to decide where the truth lies in this conflict? Not many in the west challenge the standard narrative of Zelensky good, Putin evil but this ex soldier stands it on its head and he’s VERY plausible. It’s worth a listen. Excellent video and well worth watching... Cheers for sharing 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollingJ Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 minute ago, The_DADDY said: Oh behave 🤣 Glad you find the thought funny - I don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_DADDY Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Just now, RollingJ said: Glad you find the thought funny - I don't! Poor attempt at best. I find your post funny, because it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 12 minutes ago, RollingJ said: @L00b- you'll never convince some, it almost seems as though they would welcome Putin in through the front door - for reasons which are totally beyond me. I'm lost here. Who are we trying to convince, and what are we trying to convince them of because I don't know anyone who would welcome Putin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollingJ Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 What's so funny - those I was referring to seem to support Putin's aggressive behaviour - like invading another nation. 1 minute ago, Organgrinder said: I'm lost here. Who are we trying to convince, and what are we trying to convince them of because I don't know anyone who would welcome Putin? I never uttered the word 'convince - so stop putting words in my mouth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, RollingJ said: What's so funny - those I was referring to seem to support Putin's aggressive behaviour - like invading another nation. I never uttered the word 'convince - so stop putting words in my mouth. I seem to be missing a lot as I have seen no one supporting Putin's aggressive behaviour. Look at post #1073, where I quoted you. I never typed anything - just clicked on quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollingJ Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, Organgrinder said: I seem to be missing a lot as I have seen no one supporting Putin's aggressive behaviour. Look at post #1073, where I quoted you. I never typed anything - just clicked on quote. Ah, gotcha - but that post 1073 was in reply to @L00b's post 1069 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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