Putin Threatens The West

[trastrick]

2 hours ago, cuttsie said:

Some of us were born into it Trasrick . I always remember the City as a flattened shell when in Town . Then we got the Cuban stand off ,  I Remember sitting on a scaffold on St Mary Gate listening to a transistor radio as the Russian ships edged closer to Cuba , We were all thinking will we be here at this time next week .

 

And so it goes on the big time Charlies are still in power , The Stockmarket still rules while people starve and the big red button is glowing brighter than ever .

Any room in the Dominican Republic can we bring the dogs .

   

Of course we have heard it before . At least those of us who could bother to Listen .

Times have changed. Used to be the Colonial Charlie’s could sit around the table and divide the World up between them, over a cigar and a brandy.
 

“The savages just need our Victorian moral values and our religions”.

 

Today they are coming for their share of the cigars and brandy, and outnumber you! 

 

Those “savages” are now taking charge of your Western Governments for better or worse.

 

From what I see in my “black” third world country, they’ll do a far better job!

 

Time to drop the “moral supremacist” nonsense and join the real World.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Magilla]

6 minutes ago, trastrick said:

Time to drop the “moral supremacist” nonsense and join the real World.

In that case...

 

...a shame then that, in the real world, the guy in the link you posted was saying precisely the opposite of what you thought he was saying.

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Magilla

[altus]

4 minutes ago, trastrick said:

Times have changed. Used to be the Colonial Charlie’s could sit around the table and divide the World up between them, over a cigar and a brandy.
 

“The savages just need our Victorian moral values and our religions”.

 

Today they are coming for their share of the cigars and brandy, and outnumber you! 

 

Those “savages” are now taking charge of your Western Governments for better or worse.

 

From what I see in my “black” third world country, they’ll do a far better job!

 

Time to drop the “moral supremacist” nonsense and join the real World.

You do realise we are talking about Russia here - it's Colonial Vladimir in charge over there. Putin's doing the equivalent of a UK PM saying, 'actually, we want the whole of Ireland back'.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, L00b said:

I haven't the foggiest where you are taking all that from my posts.

 

Haven't posted or suggested that you would capitulate to Putin and dump Ukraine, haven't called you or suggested that you would be a coward.

And again.

 

I have not accused you of posting any disinformation, would never deny anyone their right to speak (and would defy you to find a post wherein I backseat modded that way - do please link here if you do) and, if you feel yourself "insulted" by my posts, I genuinely cannot help you, as none of my posts have been partisan 'against' you.

 

It's just flow of conversation, no idea why you're taking my posts that way.  Possibly because I quoted your post, but -again- none of what you are reading into my replies was mean that way against you, at all.

 

Now then, as for being a European and just remembering  that 'you' have been over there and freed 'me' twice already: you haven't been over there, unless you are that old and fought (are you?), and you haven't freed "me" twice, because I'm definitely not that old.

 

The US did the heaviest lifting both times, the USSR helped a ton the second time around, they and the rest of the allies freed western europe and the rest of the world from the Axis.

 

Your forebears, all laudable and valued that their resisting and warfaring efforts were, were saved from the fate of fellow europeans stuck on the Continent by the Channel. If the Channel hadn't been there, 'you' would have needed saving just the same. If the US did not come out of its isolationism to support the UK, then Russia, with convoys, then scaled up it big time from 1942 onwards, we europeans would all still be speaking German. Or Russian.

 

That bit, you can take as a personal reply.

 

It's precisely because I remember all too well, that I support Ukraine in their plight. One may need to be descended from a family that has needed 'rescuing twice' indeed over the ages, moreover from annexation rather than occupation, to get the full meaning of that one. Because once you're annexed, you're not French under occupation anymore. You're German, and so conscriptable into the Wehrmacht for sending to the eastern front, whether you agree with nazism or not. And if it's not and you won't go willingly, then into the SS, else your family gets shipped to Schirmeck-Vorbrück concentration camp.

 

Don't anyone kid themselves that 70 years have changed anything, either. It's been pretty bad luck to be a Crimean Tatar -again- lately. Crimean Tatars - Wikipedia

 

I haven't bothered reading most of that because I neither want or need a history lesson.

I have made myself clear that I support Ukraine and consider Putin an evil enemy and fully support the NATO alliance.

I DO NOT support our prime minister and ex prime minister speaking as if they are the leaders of the western alliance.

Where I live, people would say "They've got little brains and big gobs" and I would be happy to tell them that

.

8 minutes ago, altus said:

You do realise we are talking about Russia here - it's Colonial Vladimir in charge over there. Putin's doing the equivalent of a UK PM saying, 'actually, we want the whole of Ireland back'.

You should not bring Ireland into it too unless you want to start another thread.

People have extremely strong feelings about that too because it's not our Ireland.

 

[trastrick]

9 minutes ago, altus said:

You do realise we are talking about Russia here - it's Colonial Vladimir in charge over there. Putin's doing the equivalent of a UK PM saying, 'actually, we want the whole of Ireland back'.

Pardon moi!

 

And here I was thinking we were talking about Greenland!

 

Thanks for the heads up!  

 

[trastrick]

The most dangerous people in the World are the ones so sure they are right, and every body who doesn’t buy their faulty logic and assessments are always wrong!

 

Only one view is permitted, because they are the blessed divine recipients of the truth.   No two sides to any story in their eyes.

 

It’s called Dogma, and they are slaves to it!

 

’ course it ALWAYS leads to War! 
 

Guaranteed!

 

And you got one!

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by trastrick

[Delayed]

5 minutes ago, trastrick said:

The most dangerous people in the World are the ones so sure they are right, and every body who doesn’t buy their faulty logic and assessments are always wrong!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So that would be everyone? Because everyone believes their position is the correct one?

[L00b]

1 hour ago, Jim Hardie said:

I tend to agree with you, but what about what he actually says in the video?

<Where to start?> Every Russian trope in there, bar none.

 

'It's western governments and big money firms in new york who want this war with Russia' (having infiltrated agents to kickstart a civil war in the Donbass (just like they did in Georgia and elsewhere) Russia started that war in 2014 after the Maidan revolution deposed their Russian puppet Yanukovich, Russia upped the ante in 2022)

 

'they [western governments/big money] want regime change in Russia and to fragment it' (nonsense on a stick, the disaggregation of the Russia Federation is possibly the *most dangerous* potential outcome of regime change in Russia/this conflict, which western governments are only too aware of, and none would be pushing for that very reason)

 

'NATO encroaching East' (done to death in here already - whole load of  paranoid b***** from Russia)

 

'Eastern european countries bordering Russia installed by western money' (fall of iron curtain and sovereignty restored to them by the ex-USSR governements did that, these countries joined the EU for their socio-economic development, and NATO for some of them, off their own sovereign volition)

 

'Maidan revolution was a coup that installed an unelected governement' (Yanukovich was lawfully deposed by the elected Ukrainian Parliament, a government of unity (cross-party) was set up to manage the aftermath, a full GE was held the following October)

 

'Ukraine is falling apart' (it isn't), 'Ukraine is taking the heaviest casualties from artillery systems' (it isn't), 'Ukraine don't have air defenses (they routinely shoot down Russian helicopters, jets, and 90+% of cruise missiles and drones lobbed at them; and that's without the Patriot missile batteries promised to them; there 's a reason Russian helos and jets don;t visit the front any more (and in fact, rather less) than Ukrainian helos and jets: there's too much air defense on both sides!)

<...>

It's a whole list of Kremlin-inspired wishful thinking, that does not reflect the reality on the ground reported (independently) by the OSINT community.

 

Ukraine is hurting, sure. They've taken, and are still taking, a lot of casualties, sure. They were -and still are- a David, to Russia's Goliath. Even with stacks of western-supplied MANPADS and some rusty seconds.

 

But in strategic and tactical terms, so far, the maps speak for themselves: Ukraine has wiped just about all of Russia's gains of last year, and fought it to a winter standstill, whilst taking out 75+% of Russia's professionalised troops (paras/VDVs over and above the rest) and 50% of their front line armored capacity. I don't buy the "T34 coming back from the east" propaganda...but there's a lot less T80s and T90s with 'Z' about, than 6 or even 3 months ago. And since then, under the sanctions, Russia can't buy the machine tools and parts for the CNCs, nor the embedded electronics for the planes/missiles/<...>. Why else do you think they're grabbing drones from Iran and parts from North Korea?

 

Ukrainains have proven proving particularly adept at lateral thinking and repurposing whatever they're given to maximum effect, and Russia has proven comparably  inept at combining different arms (artillery, troops, armor, air support) to attack objectives. Russians are fighting for money, or a Lada/fur coat for the Mrs. Ukrainians are fighting for their lives, and necessity is the mother of invention.

 

For instance: how is Ukraine so effective against Russian positions and armor with their own (non-HIMARs) artillery? By massively using GPS-equipped drones for target spotting, and grabbing and repurposing the Uber algorithm for target list prioritisation. It's highly asymmetrical, with 'results' just as asymmetrical, in Ukraine's favour. Thankfully for them.

Edited February 12, 2023 by L00b

[trastrick]

29 minutes ago, Delayed said:

So that would be everyone? Because everyone believes their position is the correct one?

No!

 

It's the degree of tolerance for opposing viewpoints.

 

I give you the entire SF record here of the outright venom directed to opposing views. Mirrored in the present Western culture!

 

"Putin puppets" et al, ,remember?

 

But what's the use?  You are incapable of seeing it!

 

Enjoy your wars!

 

But as events take their natural course, the flawed leftist dogma, falls to reality, there are less and less charges of "Putin Puppeteering", and on the other threads, "anti vaxxer", "COVID deniers", "conspiracy theorists", as they all rush to cover their asses!

 

That's the good news! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by trastrick

[Magilla]

28 minutes ago, trastrick said:

It’s called Dogma, and they are slaves to it!

Yawn, dogma is a point of view put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds... which is exactly what you're doing here, and throughout the climate change thread!

 

Even your own links dispute your claims...

 

...and the subsequent comparisons to 1939 are just so far off the mark and ill-informed they're laughable!

 

28 minutes ago, trastrick said:

’ course it ALWAYS leads to War! 
 

Guaranteed!

 

And you got one!

 

Good luck!

Ill-informed babble.