Putin Threatens The West

[hackey lad]

2 hours ago, L00b said:

Dunno about the top questions, do your research.

 

But about the bonus questions? Far far less, than not supporting Ukraine would eventually cost you (-and everyone else who’s chipping in, lest you forget).

 

Imperialistic blackmail by a nuclear power. Think about it.

[Anna B]

2 hours ago, Kidorry said:

By providing stuff to build armaments, and food that we could not get from anywhere else.

As Big PP says they pitched in with a lend lease structure, in other words they rented us stuff and let us buy stuff on credit. We racked up a debt of millions plus interest, which we didn't finish paying back until the 1990's.

[Thug Life]

I wish both sides would stop fighting and give every single unkrainian a vote to see if they want to be part of Russia or not and both sides should respect the results of a vote.

[hackey lad]

Not fooling anyone , anymore 

[Jim117]

11 hours ago, Anna B said:

As Big PP says they pitched in with a lend lease structure, in other words they rented us stuff and let us buy stuff on credit. We racked up a debt of millions plus interest, which we didn't finish paying back until the 1990's.

Very true. That was the price of stopping a genocidal nutter with the blood of 6 million Jews on his hands, amongst others. The world said “never again “ yet here we are again with another genocidal nutter on the rampage. Freedom isn’t free, it comes with a price tag.

[L00b]

17 hours ago, Anna B said:

As Big PP says they pitched in with a lend lease structure, in other words they rented us stuff and let us buy stuff on credit. We racked up a debt of millions plus interest, which we didn't finish paying back until the 1990's.

Well, the thrifty alternative was, do it yourself for free, and see how you go.
 

Only, as I recall (from volumes of historical books on the topic), there wasn’t much available in the UK to sustain enough of a fight to keep the Huns at bay. Not enough primary resources, not enough manufacturing capacity, not enough boats, canons, tanks, this-that-the other.
 

Whence the UK could well have ended up like the rest of Europe at the time. Occupied. Optionally with bits annexed to the Reich.

So, take on debt but get weapons, and POS, and food, and (…) to help resist the Huns.
 

Or do not, and eventually lose to the Huns.

Put yourself in the shoes of an American taxpayer at the time, Anna: what would have been your opinion?
 

Because that is effectively the situation which you are raising now, only with the UK (and others ofc) in the lending place of the US (assuming that the UK is lend-leasing, here).

 

Do you agree with this potential outcome of your argument?

 

For plucky but tiny Ukraine, left to its own devices by the peaceful/‘broke’ West, to end up occupied/annexed by Russia?
 

2022 Russia, run as the epitome -and logical endpoint- of fullfat neoliberalism, through Nazi-rivalling policies: feudalism.

Edited October 28, 2022 by L00b

[trastrick]

On 27/10/2022 at 14:23, L00b said:

Dunno about the top questions, do your research.

 

But about the bonus questions? Far far less, than not supporting Ukraine would eventually cost you (-and everyone else who’s chipping in, lest you forget).

 

Imperialistic blackmail by a nuclear power. Think about it.

Is it possible to "blackmail" an innocent party?

 

It's supposed to be an "unprovoked" invasion of a soveriegn country by a power mad war criminal, don't forget! 

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by trastrick

[trastrick]

On 27/10/2022 at 07:57, Anna B said:

Tony Blair took us into a major war against the wishes of millions of UK citizens. We are still feeling the consequences of that today, though TB is long gone.

Boris Johnson lied through his teeth to persuade people to leave the EU. The problems it's caused are still with us.

The Tories blamed the Labour for a world wide financial crash and deliberately imposed Austerity on the strength of that lie, as an excuse to reduce the state. Leaving us all more vulnerable in every area (especially to the pandemic.)

Etc. 

You don't need a crystal ball when you create the problems yourself. 

Well said, Anna.

 

The current crop of politicians are devoting their efforts to explaining, rationalizing and blaming their own problems on others, rather than devoting their efforts to do the job they promised  they could do when they were hired. 

 

They are fortunate that 85% of the MSM, share their political philosophy.

 

So the outlook is not good!

Edited October 29, 2022 by trastrick

[trastrick]

19 hours ago, L00b said:

Well, the thrifty alternative was, do it yourself for free, and see how you go.
 

Only, as I recall (from volumes of historical books on the topic), there wasn’t much available in the UK to sustain enough of a fight to keep the Huns at bay. Not enough primary resources, not enough manufacturing capacity, not enough boats, canons, tanks, this-that-the other.
 

Whence the UK could well have ended up like the rest of Europe at the time. Occupied. Optionally with bits annexed to the Reich.

So, take on debt but get weapons, and POS, and food, and (…) to help resist the Huns.
 

Or do not, and eventually lose to the Huns.

Put yourself in the shoes of an American taxpayer at the time, Anna: what would have been your opinion?
 

Because that is effectively the situation which you are raising now, only with the UK (and others ofc) in the lending place of the US (assuming that the UK is lend-leasing, here).

 

Do you agree with this potential outcome of your argument?

 

For plucky but tiny Ukraine, left to its own devices by the peaceful/‘broke’ West, to end up occupied/annexed by Russia?
 

2022 Russia, run as the epitome -and logical endpoint- of fullfat neoliberalism, through Nazi-rivalling policies: feudalism.

It took the military might of America to end the wars with Imperial Japan, NAZI Germany, and later stalemate the Communists in Asia, and Latin America.

 

Less so the hire purchase agreements.

 

And the allies were NOT dependent on the AXIS powers for their OIl and Gas! 

 

The same is true today with Totalitarian Putin!

 

You either use all your military might to elimniate your Totalitarian  enemies. or you have to negotiate with them.

 

No other choice!

Edited October 29, 2022 by trastrick

[Magilla]

8 hours ago, trastrick said:

The current crop of politicians are devoting their efforts to explaining, rationalizing and blaming their own problems on others, rather than devoting their efforts to do the job they promised  they could do when they were hired. 

The "current crop"?

 

Complete nonsense... this has been a feature of politicians, of all flavours, since day one!

 

It's literally one of the major parts of the getting elected "play-book"...

 

...there is no politician, alive or dead, who hasn't done precisely that throughout their political career!

 

8 hours ago, trastrick said:

It took the military might of America to end the wars with Imperial Japan, NAZI Germany, and later stalemate the Communists in Asia, and Latin America.

Vietnam wasn't a stalemate!

 

Quote

And the allies were NOT dependent on the AXIS powers for their OIl and Gas! 

A... Most of the "Allies" aren't dependent on that oil and gas.

B... The AXIS is more dependent on the "Allies" buying that oil and gas than the other way around.

 

Quote

You either use all your military might to elimniate your Totalitarian  enemies. or you have to negotiate with them.

 

No other choice!

Like everything, it's almost never such a binary choice. Context is everything.

 

Depends entirely on the situation at hand.

 

As per Iran & North Korea... you can also try to keep them in their box.

 

There are many other tools available, most of which don't have to involve military intervention.

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Magilla