Putin Threatens The West

[trastrick]

21 hours ago, L00b said:

You’re not being “satirical”, you’re being disingenuous: whether the West has more nuclear weapons capabilities than Russia is completely irrelevant, because by the time the West would use them, everyone would be dead, dying, or wishing they soon would be.

 

Putin, in a terminal military spin out and with his existential back to the wall, detonates a tactical nuke, or a dirty bomb, in eastern Ukraine.
 

Then what?

 

Do you imagine for a second that the West would nuke Russia outright with a decapitation strike?
 

No. Either the West goes into Ukraine militarily, or it does nothing.

 

Either way, Putin then threatens to do it again. Or even, does it again outright,

 

Then what?

 

That’s the blackmail. The solution, for now, is to continually defuse and forestall his false flags, like the West just did now - and did before, e.g. with those fabled ‘biowarfare labs’. 
 

What’s you alternative? I mean, short of handing Ukraine to Vlad, since that is still not what the Ukrainian people want.

I've posted my "alternative" ad infinitum here.

 

Under your "rationale", America "blackmailed" Japan into surendering by dropping two Atomic bombs on the innocent citizens of Hiroshjima and Nagasaki.

 

History is not just what one reads in the Guardian headlines.

 

Any way:

The choices are the same as they were during the 50 years of the Cold War.

 

Recognize geopolitical realities. Two, (now three) military superpowers. U.S. Russia and China.

 

Despite all threats, they co-existed, and kept the peace, through a series of policies, "MAD", "Detente", and ultimately trade and cultural exchanges.  They each recogized the other's borders, and more importantly, recognized each power's  de-militarized buffer zones, such as Canada, Mexico, South America, Cuba in the West, and the Baltics and Ukraine in the East.

 

Under that scenario, the Ukraine would not be allowed to form a military alliance with the West, any more than Cuba, Mexico or Canada would be allowed to form a military alliance with the U.S.S.R.

 

After the fall of the USSR, some believe that NATO, a military alliance, formed to protect Europe from the U.S.S.R. had achieved it's purpose, as Russia was no more an immediate military threat to Europe.

 

But NATO took the opportunity instead, to increase NATO military reach.

 

After the fall of the U.S.S.R, NATO Membership added 9 former Soviet sphere states, and advocated for more, Ukraine being one of them.

 

Russia saw this as an unneccessary military threat to their existence, from their historical enemies in the West.

 

They has been invaded by Europe before, notably France (Napoleon), and Germany (Hitler) and believed they should be able to protect their country from future incursions. A neutral or client state on their doorstep, the Ukraine was deemed by them to be a National Defence matter.

 

This paranoia was not diffused in any way by the U.S. President Biden's recent remarks to the World, After calling Putin a "butcher" and a "war criminal" he appealed to the heavens, "For God's sake, this man can not remain in power!

 

Now that is fighting talk from the Leader of the Free World.

 

So a geopolitical issue now also becomes a personal vendetta between two politicians who are trying to remain in power.

 

Not good!

 

As I previously stated, here, this is an asymetric war of attrition

 

Under the present Foreign Policy of the West, ("It could go on for years!" they say) the Ukraine will run out of manpower and infrastructure, before Russia does, no matter how many weapons the West sends them. They'll presumably need manpower too, to use them.

 

As someone who lived through all these times, and took a keen interest in them, I share Kissinger's (look him up) view that major geopolitical powers have the right to determine what is an external threat to their own well being.

 

He, like me, and many others who don't get quoted in Media these days, see the short term solution is to end the unjustifiable killing now, and negotiate a peaceful solution, even if it means partial partion of those Russian speaking areas of the Ukraine, that Russia now occupies. Even if it means enforcing Zelensky to negotiate.

 

(Kissinger was responsible for helping the West navigate the complexities of the Cold War, advocating engaging them and keeping the lines of communication open, to allow Summit Talks, on Nuclear Weapons control and reductions (See the SALT talks, and Summits between Reagan and Gorbachev to cool the temperatures)

 

And forget your Eurocentric "moral" highground, about defending a sovereign state.

 

Forced partition was done before in the Ukraine, when Obama/Biden allowed Putin to take over Ukrainian Crimea in 2014. It's been done in the Middle East and Asia to end hot wars.

 

In the long term the West would be better served to resume Detente with it's global enemies, and win the hearts and minds of their populations, by showing them the fruits of Western economies, with cultural and trade exchanges, like freedom to travel, investment in Western cultural niceties like London football teams, mansions in New York, London, and Dominican Republic, yachts and jet planes free to dock or land anywhere in the world.

 

The only alternative to that (failing all out war against them, which the LOTFW, Biden, has said is out of the question)) is isolation and never ending proxy wars.

 

The West is a minority in the World at large, and it's enemies are getting stronger evey day!

 

And it is the West who are the only Power who can stop the useless killing.

 

As before, sooner, rather than later!

 

Note:

 

Biden and Boris's stated policies we will not give in, even if the war goes on for years!

 

Puts them solidly out of the running for Peace Broker!

 

What does your new PM say?

Edited November 1, 2022 by trastrick

[trastrick]

You'd think a War in Europe would be a major job for the United Nations, if we had one 

 

What do they say?

 

Aside from the Ukraine grain deal, not much about the War.

 

Here's their web site:

 

https://www.un.org/en/

 

They are busy with climate change, so they can be excused.

 

(I guess!) 

 

The only other reference to Ukraine I could find, is what they are doing on aid to the Ukraine people, and that came from a Google search:

 

"The UN is delivering emergency aid and assistance to people across Ukraine and neighboring areas — particularly women, children, elderly people, and those with disabilities. The UN has more than 1,400 UN personnel on the ground across all 24 oblasts in Ukraine."

 

They did leave out males and gays, but that can be excused, I suppose! 

 

[L00b]

11 hours ago, trastrick said:

Under your "rationale", America "blackmailed" Japan into surendering by dropping two Atomic bombs on the innocent citizens of Hiroshjima and Nagasaki.

 

(…)

 

What does your new PM say?

That is exactly what America did. The US told Japan  they’d be getting further atomic bombs unless the surrendered (which was a bluff at the time, as the US didn’t have 3rd one, never mind more). History is perfectly clear. And remembered here.

 

I don’t have a new PM. Brits do. Last I heard, Sunak says ‘more help to the Ukrainians’.

[The_DADDY]

5 minutes ago, L00b said:

That is exactly what America did. The US told Japan  they’d be getting further atomic bombs unless the surrendered (which was a bluff at the time, as the US didn’t have 3rd one, never mind more). History is perfectly clear. And remembered here.

 

I don’t have a new PM. Brits do. Last I heard, Sunak says ‘more help to the Ukrainians’.

Great. So WW2 was a fight against nazis, now we are funding them.

You couldn't make it up🙄

[Dromedary]

30 minutes ago, L00b said:

That is exactly what America did. The US told Japan  they’d be getting further atomic bombs unless the surrendered (which was a bluff at the time, as the US didn’t have 3rd one, never mind more). History is perfectly clear. And remembered here.

It seems you have remembered a different version of history to the one reported.! No surprise there though....

[crookesey]

It’s a fair.y good supposition that the likes of Hitler and Stalin had serious but undiagnosed  mental problems, I see some of this in respect of Putin, he comes out as a Russian patriot with a dislike for Ukrainian right wing policies. I don’t believe any of it, do we have to wait for Putin’s next move and which direction it will take?

[Padders]

1 hour ago, crookesey said:

It’s a fair.y good supposition that the likes of Hitler and Stalin had serious but undiagnosed  mental problems, I see some of this in respect of Putin, he comes out as a Russian patriot with a dislike for Ukrainian right wing policies. I don’t believe any of it, do we have to wait for Putin’s next move and which direction it will take?

Recommission the Vulcan bomber, fill it with Atom bombs, and tell Mr. Putin it's ready for take off.

 

[cuttsie]

6 minutes ago, Padders said:

Recommission the Vulcan bomber, fill it with Atom bombs, and tell Mr. Putin it's ready for take off.

 

From Doncaster air o drome  .

[hackey lad]

41 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

From Doncaster air o drome  .

“air o drome “ is that in Ireland  😃

[L00b]

12 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

Great. So WW2 was a fight against nazis, now we are funding them.

You couldn't make it up🙄

Ukrainians = Nazis, The_DADDY?
 

Seriously?