Putin Threatens The West

[The_DADDY]

6 minutes ago, Padders said:

Oh dear,

Happy hours over.

It would appear so. He seems very angry and sweary.  

[Guest]

On 04/11/2022 at 16:03, harvey19 said:

When enlisting a soldier takes an oath which in effect determines that he obeys the orders of those over him/her.

Unless the individual commits "war crimes" under the Geneva Convention they are acting legally because they have been empowered to do so by those they swore allegiance to.  

 The politicians and their legal advisors are the ones to ensure the "war " is legal. 

In N' Ireland the rules of law applied as no war was declared therefore the Geneva Convention did not apply.

What I do find is that WE know only a tiny bit of the reasons for what is happening and propaganda by all sides is a powerful weapon.

 

Just a point of interest.

If a soldier is given an order which he strongly disagrees with the procedure is to carry out the order and then submit a redress of grievance.

Right is right and wrong is wrong despite whether under your governments orders or not.

Never heard such a load of bunkum ( at least, since I read your last post)

What do you know about soldiering anyway.

It'll just be another armchair warrior no doubt.

[harvey19]

11 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Right is right and wrong is wrong despite whether under your governments orders or not.

Never heard such a load of bunkum ( at least, since I read your last post)

What do you know about soldiering anyway.

It'll just be another armchair warrior no doubt.

I was a regular soldier, what about you ?

What do you base your opinion on ?

Please supply facts and not just off hand criticisms.

[trastrick]

The mood is changing! So is the MSM "narrative"

 

Its getting harder for the Western armchair warriors to be against Peace, and preventing a Third World War! 

 

THE GUARDIAN

We must end this war – saving Ukraine’s democracy is just one reason to do so

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/05/ukraine-democracy-russia-zelenskiy-us-washington

 

 

WASHINGTON POST/THE HILL

U.S. privately asking Ukraine to drop public refusal of peace talks with Russia: Washington Post

 

https://thehill.com/policy/international/3721682-u-s-privately-asking-ukraine-to-drop-public-refusal-of-peace-talks-with-russia-washington-post/

 

So any sofa telly warriors out there who want to join the latest MSM "narrative",  I say "Welcome Aboard".

 

Like in the COVID thread you can join the "WE" (former "Putin puppets") who saw this coming! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, harvey19 said:

I was a regular soldier, what about you ?

What do you base your opinion on ?

Please supply facts and not just off hand criticisms.

Yes, I signed on in 1957, Signals, Catterick just after national Service had been dispensed with.

Firstly, as I said, committing acts of unnecessary violence, especially on civilians, are never under the orders of the British army and right is still right whatever your orders say.

You should know, as a regular, that most of these types of acts are committed by squaddies who get carried away with their own anger and not under some orders which they can hide behind.

No army in the world can make a wrong act right by the orders it issues.

You sound as though, like governments the world over, including ours, you like to justify what's done done by little rules.

We have committed plenty of wrongs throughout our history and it's shameful for any human who considers himself decent, to deny this.

Your reply suggests that you were a typical Barrack Room Lawyer and still are. They always hide behind the rules.

 

[harvey19]

16 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Yes, I signed on in 1957, Signals, Catterick just after national Service had been dispensed with.

Firstly, as I said, committing acts of unnecessary violence, especially on civilians, are never under the orders of the British army and right is still right whatever your orders say.

You should know, as a regular, that most of these types of acts are committed by squaddies who get carried away with their own anger and not under some orders which they can hide behind.

No army in the world can make a wrong act right by the orders it issues.

You sound as though, like governments the world over, including ours, you like to justify what's done done by little rules.

We have committed plenty of wrongs throughout our history and it's shameful for any human who considers himself decent, to deny this.

Your reply suggests that you were a typical Barrack Room Lawyer and still are. They always hide behind the rules.

 

 

I do not condone acts of unnecessary violence against anyone.

Did you ever see any active service and see these acts.

War is a terrible thing and I think you need to consider this in the context of behaviour of all soldiers whichever side they are on.

What is you view on civilians who commit violent acts against soldiers ?

I was never a barrack room lawyer, you seem to enjoy throwing insults.

Certa Cito

Edited November 7, 2022 by harvey19

[trastrick]

15 hours ago, harvey19 said:

 

I do not condone acts of unnecessary violence against anyone.

Did you ever see any active service and see these acts.

War is a terrible thing and I think you need to consider this in the context of behaviour of all soldiers whichever side they are on.

I was never a barrack room lawyer, you seem to enjoy throwing insults.

Certa Cito

Western Rules, "rules" are one thing.

 

But not everyone subscribes to them. The reality:

 

Terrorism is considered legit in some countries fighting occupying forces.

 

Looters can be shot on sight in the Ukraine.

 

Deserters can be shot in many countries.

 

Torture is common many countries.

 

Disfigurement and dismemberment of criminals is common in the Middle East.

 

So is stoning to death of adulterous women.

 

A country at war cannot dictate the rules to be followed by their enemies.

 

Pearl clutching, virtue signaling, "outrage", "condemnation", "shaming", and "name calling" are inefffective weapons against Totalitarians.

 

 

 

 

[L00b]

3 hours ago, trastrick said:

Western Rules, "rules" are one thing.

 

But not everyone subscribes to them. The reality:

 

Terrorism is considered legit in some countries fighting occupying forces.

One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. A universal truth, as old as warfare itself.

 

But isn’t it funny how quickly forgotten French, Dutch, Greek (etc) resistance during WW2 is, by the duplicitous lot objecting to the qualification of Russia as a terrorist state?
 

Could it be that they, like Ukraine today, were all fighting occupying forces indeed?

 

Wherein, acknowledging the fact in this debate, would show up Russia’s tactics -targeting Ukrainian civilians with military attacks and ethnic cleansing- for what they really are?

4 hours ago, trastrick said:

Pearl clutching, virtue signaling, "outrage", "condemnation", "shaming", and "name calling" are inefffective weapons against Totalitarians.

Quite right. And negotiating from a position of weakness likewise.

[trastrick]

2 hours ago, L00b said:

One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. A universal truth, as old as warfare itself.

 

But isn’t it funny how quickly forgotten French, Dutch, Greek (etc) resistance during WW2 is, by the duplicitous lot objecting to the qualification of Russia as a terrorist state?
 

Could it be that they, like Ukraine today, were all fighting occupying forces indeed?

 

Wherein, acknowledging the fact in this debate, would show up Russia’s tactics -targeting Ukrainian civilians with military attacks and ethnic cleansing- for what they really are?

Quite right. And negotiating from a position of weakness likewise.

I agree with you (I think?) 

 

It is our Western moral values that were being fought for during our previous wars, and now in the Ukraine.

 

The reality is, we are a minority in the World, and our enemies do not share our moral values.

 

We can only hope that the people we are supporting do.

 

The people of Iran (we helped depose the Shah who was friendly to the West), Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya we spent blood and treasure supporting, ended up our enemies still.

[L00b]

I recall some posters taking issue about me calling Russia a ‘terrorist’ state, not so long ago...

 

…apparently, there’s no such misgivings in the British judiciary:

 

"The judge’s ruling was founded on the basis that Russia’s actions in Ukraine could amount to terrorism as defined by UK law and that the activists were stopping an illegal activity – namely the funding of terrorism."

 

https://eastangliabylines.co.uk/greenpeace-activists-cleared-of-blocking-russian-fuel-ship-in-essex/