Putin Threatens The West

[crookesey]

20 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Please yourself if you wish to quote a document and then deny what it says.

 

There was a very full and well researched program on BBC TV which stated with the aftermath of World War 2 and showed everything that happened and the American guy who had made the agreement.

There was nothing written and signed (which was a big mistake) but that pledge was made in a completely friendly manner and then forgotten about..

 

I'm telling you, NATO did make such a pledge.

Irrespective of whether the pledge can be proven,  do you deny that since World War 2, NATO has spread it's hold and influence eastwards, right up to Russia's border,  and that is what Putin claims.

 

What is relevant is you trying to use a NATO document to claim that NATO didn't do that.

That would be worth trying in courts of law where we allow the man who's alleged to be guilty, to be the one who decides whether he is or not.

 

Would you also deny that we, together with the USA,  have also invaded and occupied other countries in a warlike manner.

We may not be as merciless as Putin but, we have done the same thing and claimed we ere not in the wrong.

I've talked about Putin's in that very first sentence if you take another look.

I also don't believe I need your permission or entitlement to start another thread or to post on this one.

Read again, I didn’t give you my permission to do anything.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, crookesey said:

Read again, I didn’t give you my permission to do anything.

crookesey

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Posted 3 minutes ago

  1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

No, I am saying that Russia IS encroaching on other former USSR countries and YES, this is completely wrong BUT,

we started it off by spreading NATO eastwards after promising (only verbally) that we wouldn't.

relationships were so good that this was never formally signed but we, broke our promise, which has led to the deterioration in relations between us.

You may also wonder what is the difference is between what Putin is doing, and our going into Afghanistan.

 

You are perfectly entitled to start a thread critical of any nation’s territorial ambitions, this one if of Putin’s.

 

[crookesey]

3 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

crookesey

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Posted 3 minutes ago

  1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

No, I am saying that Russia IS encroaching on other former USSR countries and YES, this is completely wrong BUT,

we started it off by spreading NATO eastwards after promising (only verbally) that we wouldn't.

relationships were so good that this was never formally signed but we, broke our promise, which has led to the deterioration in relations between us.

You may also wonder what is the difference is between what Putin is doing, and our going into Afghanistan.

 

You are perfectly entitled to start a thread critical of any nation’s territorial ambitions, this one if of Putin’s.

 

I don’t understand this post.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, crookesey said:

I don’t understand this post.

You said   QUOTE "You are perfectly entitled to start a thread critical of any nation’s territorial ambitions, this one if of Putin’s UNQUOTE

and then you said   -

QUOTE   "Read again, I didn’t give you my permission to do anything"

 

I have more to do than quote from post 1 to post 2 to post 3.

Easier to remember what you have said.

[crookesey]

3 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

You said   QUOTE "You are perfectly entitled to start a thread critical of any nation’s territorial ambitions, this one if of Putin’s UNQUOTE

and then you said   -

QUOTE   "Read again, I didn’t give you my permission to do anything"

 

I have more to do than quote from post 1 to post 2 to post 3.

Easier to remember what you have said.

You are perfectly entitled to do as you wish , I await post informing me that I have given you permission to do as you wish. 😉

[Guest makapaka]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

Please yourself if you wish to quote a document and then deny what it says.

 

There was a very full and well researched program on BBC TV which stated with the aftermath of World War 2 and showed everything that happened and the American guy who had made the agreement.

There was nothing written and signed (which was a big mistake) but that pledge was made in a completely friendly manner and then forgotten about..

 

I'm telling you, NATO did make such a pledge.

Irrespective of whether the pledge can be proven,  do you deny that since World War 2, NATO has spread it's hold and influence eastwards, right up to Russia's border,  and that is what Putin claims.

 

What is relevant is you trying to use a NATO document to claim that NATO didn't do that.

That would be worth trying in courts of law where we allow the man who's alleged to be guilty, to be the one who decides whether he is or not.

 

Would you also deny that we, together with the USA,  have also invaded and occupied other countries in a warlike manner.

We may not be as merciless as Putin but, we have done the same thing and claimed we ere not in the wrong.

I've talked about Putin's in that very first sentence if you take another look.

I also don't believe I need your permission or entitlement to start another thread or to post on this one.

This is all entirely correct.

 

 

[The_DADDY]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

Please yourself if you wish to quote a document and then deny what it says.

 

There was a very full and well researched program on BBC TV which stated with the aftermath of World War 2 and showed everything that happened and the American guy who had made the agreement.

There was nothing written and signed (which was a big mistake) but that pledge was made in a completely friendly manner and then forgotten about..

 

I'm telling you, NATO did make such a pledge.

Irrespective of whether the pledge can be proven,  do you deny that since World War 2, NATO has spread it's hold and influence eastwards, right up to Russia's border,  and that is what Putin claims.

 

What is relevant is you trying to use a NATO document to claim that NATO didn't do that.

That would be worth trying in courts of law where we allow the man who's alleged to be guilty, to be the one who decides whether he is or not.

 

Would you also deny that we, together with the USA,  have also invaded and occupied other countries in a warlike manner.

We may not be as merciless as Putin but, we have done the same thing and claimed we ere not in the wrong.

I've talked about Putin's in that very first sentence if you take another look.

I also don't believe I need your permission or entitlement to start another thread or to post on this one.

👏

[Dromedary]

7 minutes ago, makapaka said:

This is all entirely correct.

One thing that is rarely mentioned is how the EU have gone out of their way to encourage ex soviet states to join their organisation knowing full well that Russia was against that. Putin is against the EU and its continuing expansion more than he is against NATO and has been demonstrating that in his actions.

[trastrick]

More "Ukraine Winning" from today's news!

 

The Guardian

 

"Russia-Ukraine war live: civilians flee Russian shelling of Kherson; Belarus foreign minister dies ‘suddenly’

Civilians leave Kherson weeks after celebrating its recapture by Ukrainian forces; 

 

"More than 6m Ukrainian households still without power; EU to boost efforts to restore electricity and heating; Hungarian president to meet Zelenskiy

 

"Russian shelling on the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson killed 15 civilians on Friday, officials said, as engineers across the country sought to restore heat, water and power to major cities.

 

"Russia-Ukraine war: shelling forces Kherson hospitals to evacuate as UN warns millions plunged into hardship – as it happened

 

"Much of Ukraine remained without electricity, heat and water two days after a devastating series of Russian missile attacks against civilian infrastructure.

 

"EU diplomats are meeting this evening to resume talks on whether they can finalise a deal on a price level to cap Russian oil exports, according to a report by Bloomberg. European governments have failed so far to reach a deal on the price level for Russian oil. A G7 proposal for a cap of $65-$70 a barrel is seen as far too high by some, and too low by others. 

 

And this:

 

"Ukraine’s leaders would have to be “far-sighted” to secure peace, Pope Francis said, suggesting Kyiv would have to make concessions to end the war with Russia.

 

Did you see all that stuff on telly today Bert?

 

Never mind love, put the kettle on and we'll have a nice cup of tea!  There's football on this afernoon!

Edited November 27, 2022 by trastrick

[L00b]

1 hour ago, Dromedary said:

One thing that is rarely mentioned is how the EU have gone out of their way to encourage ex soviet states to join their organisation knowing full well that Russia was against that. Putin is against the EU and its continuing expansion more than he is against NATO and has been demonstrating that in his actions.

Such countries on the other side of the iron country regained their sovereignty with the fall of the USSR. 
 

They decided, as a sovereign choice, to join the EU. Whilst keeping their sovereignty, of course. Just as the UK did, then decided to leave the EU, still as a sovereign choice.

 

So please let us know, what the everlasting f*** should it matter, whether it displeases Putin, or not, what countries that were previously vassal states of the USSR and owe that ex-USSR precisely f*** all save for 50-odd years of politico-socio-economic mismanagement by the Kremlin, decide to do?

 

Putin can be against the EU all he wants. Makes about as much sense as being against the sun rising in the east, or rain falling. Doesn’t give him any valid excuse, in law or equity, to deny countries over which he has no legitimate claim to rule, their own sovereign choices.

Edited November 27, 2022 by L00b