2nd October 2022 Mass Bus Cuts Across South Yorkshire

[RollingJ]

3 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

8a . When it goes through the Owlthorpe estates 

OK. As the current online timetables don't include a a route map/description,  I'll take your word for it.

[hackey lad]

3 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

OK. As the current online timetables don't include a a route map/description,  I'll take your word for it.

Moorthorpe Way ( from Moss Way)  through bottom of Owlthorpe. Up Donetsk Way then through other Owlthorpe estate then out onto Sheffield Rd

[BigAl1]

the 58 also operates on the Wadsley Park estate and round to the library at Hillsbrough as a hail and ride service and has done so for years

[Andy C]

7 hours ago, Resident said:

Funded by the government cash given to support and improve public transport, cash he and SYMCA should have spent on tendered services in the first place? 

It'll be a task-force of his nearest and dearest & their recommendation will be do what Burnham has in Manchester, copying the London (failed) model. We all know it doesn't work but it puts more money through his grubby hands.....

 

You are probably right in some respects, however I'd suggest both the current model (unsubsidised commercial network supplemented by subsidised tendered services) and the franchise model (where public sector specifies the routes, timetables and fares and takes the financial risk) can work if the basics are right, however as I've said before all the things that are currently wrong is nothing to do with ownership or operating models so why spend millions restructuring everything?

 

The issues are

- passenger numbers down 25% compared to pre-covid.

- road and bus stop infrastructure is putting passengers off

- negative messaging from MPs, councillors etc is putting passengers off

- poor reliability caused principally by traffic congestion and inadequate priority measures is putting passengers off

- general lifestyle changes through Covid has reduced demand for travel (more working from home, online shopping, socialising more locally etc)

- tendered network underfunded and inadequate whilst at the same time funds are spent on cheap travel for 18-21 year olds and poorly used City Centre minibuses

- inadequate passenger information provided by local authority at bus stops and no longer producing printed information for libraries, travel centres etc.

- City planners not taking into account need for public transport infrastructure.

- Industry wide shortage of drivers

- tickets for longer journeys / unlimited travel are generally way too cheap

- too many travelling on discounted concessionary tickets

 

All buses up to 1 October were funded by government Coronavirus support funding, however from 2 October they once again have to run commercially. The government at the last minute announced a funding extension until March although a reduced amount, which now goes to the South Yorkshire Mayor to fund additional tendered services.

 

The biggest issue with the commercial network now is the cost of providing the bus service needs to be covered by ticket sales but with reduced patronage, low ticket prices and phasing out of government Covid support the ticket sales aren't covering the costs, hence buses are losing money and have had to be cut so the service levels match the level of ticket sales. However if the buses were to be publicly operated or franchised, the same cuts would have to happen unless an increase in taxpayer subsidy was found.

 

The two big things that really need to happen is for more people to use public transport again (and an operating environment created by the local authorities that allow the operators to attract more passengers) and an improvement in how tendered services are provided to fill the gaps in the commercial network.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Andy C

[Resident]

7 hours ago, Andy C said:

1 - passenger numbers down 25% compared to pre-covid.

2 - road and bus stop infrastructure is putting passengers off

3 - negative messaging from MPs, councillors etc is putting passengers off

4 - poor reliability caused principally by traffic congestion and inadequate priority measures is putting passengers off

5 - general lifestyle changes through Covid has reduced demand for travel (more working from home, online shopping, socialising more locally etc)

6 - tendered network underfunded and inadequate whilst at the same time funds are spent on cheap travel for 18-21 year olds and poorly used City Centre minibuses

7 - inadequate passenger information provided by local authority at bus stops and no longer producing printed information for libraries, travel centres etc.

8 - City planners not taking into account need for public transport infrastructure.

9 - Industry wide shortage of drivers

10 - tickets for longer journeys / unlimited travel are generally way too cheap

11- too many travelling on discounted concessionary tickets

1 & 5. Can't argue. A major call-centre provider in Rotherham has shut down one of it's 2 buildings. Easily held 2000 people who now work from home, which is probably the bigger of impactors to numbers. Personally I think full-time WFH is going to lead to social problems down the road but that's another thread. 

2,3,4,6,7,8 - The public won't see this though, it's always the fault of the "greedy profit mongering" operators. The problem in Sheffield where roads and infrastructure are concerned is that SCC has a puppet master who wants the lot pedestrianised/cycle laned. Being the majority land owner in Sheffield, they shout jump and SCC shout 'how high'.  The lies over Pinstone St need serious outside investigation. 

 

9. Once again the public reaping what they sowed. The abuse hurled at drivers etc means that people don't want to work in the industry. Maybe if they stopped being morons and realised the person in the drivers seat isn't to blame then there might be more drivers. 

 

10. Wholeheartedly yes. One example. X1 Moorfoot to Maltby. From Moorfoot to Arena Square it's £3.00 single. Moorfoot to Hellaby, just outside Maltby, guess what, £3.00 so essentially from Arena to Hellaby you're paying nothing. Moorfoot to Maltby is £3.50 but you can buy a SY First day at £5.40 and go end to end multiple times a day. Travelmaster tickets are ridiculously cheap considering the range. 

11. Again no arguement. Seems they're handed out like sweets. I'm no stranger to hidden disablities but addicts & general scrotes seem to have them too. I am friends with several drivers and one showed me a summary of his tickets taken for one morning shift. From 5am to 1130am this driver had taken 167 tickets. Over 130 of these were concession passes. Concession subsidy rates vary but average I'm informed it's about £1.60 per scan so about half the rate that a paying passenger pays. Drivers have also told me they've faced abuse from those that hold the time-limited concession cards when they've tried to board out of time and been refused free travel. 

[RollingJ]

@martinC,  @ResidentJust for comparison, here are the Brighton & Hove Buses ticket prices for use across their whole network - which can also be used with other operators on some routes/sections of routes:

 

networkSAVER

	1 day	7 day	28  day	Pay monthly	90 day	Annual
Adult	£5.50	£25.00	£91.00	£88.00	£248.00	£785.00
Child	£2.75	£12.10	-	£38.00	£116.00	£385.00
Student	£4.00	£16.65	£61.25	-	£162.45	£487.75

[Resident]

1 hour ago, RollingJ said:

@martinC,  @ResidentJust for comparison, here are the Brighton & Hove Buses ticket prices for use across their whole network - which can also be used with other operators on some routes/sections of routes:

 

networkSAVER

	1 day	7 day	28  day	Pay monthly	90 day	Annual
Adult	£5.50	£25.00	£91.00	£88.00	£248.00	£785.00
Child	£2.75	£12.10	-	£38.00	£116.00	£385.00
Student	£4.00	£16.65	£61.25	-	£162.45	£487.75

B&H has somethings Sheffield doesn't. 

 

A tourist industry 

Greater passenger numbers

[RollingJ]

1 minute ago, Resident said:

B&H has somethings Sheffield doesn't. 

 

A tourist industry 

Greater passenger numbers

Agreed - although mostly in a relatively small window. My visits to the area are usually outside the MAIN tourist season, and the passenger loads are still higher than what you see on buses in SY.

 

Another way of looking at it is: they don't have a PTE, but they do have local councils and bus companies that work together - although Stagecoach is a major player that doesn't seem to want to.

[HeHasRisen]

IKEA money paying for the X1 and X10 to continue.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-63207477?at_custom1=link&at_custom3=Regional+BBC+Yorkshire+&at_medium=custom7&at_custom2=facebook_page&at_custom4=E7D37272-4931-11ED-8D0D-F0062152A482&at_campaign=64&fbclid=IwAR0Waw3igE0Hqc9VQfDxBbn66O_OMskLZ2DUxjCXcb5i2nqna3oDvt2AAG0

Edited October 11, 2022 by HeHasRisen

[BigAl1]

31 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

IKEA money paying for the X1 and X10 to continue.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-63207477?at_custom1=link&at_custom3=Regional+BBC+Yorkshire+&at_medium=custom7&at_custom2=facebook_page&at_custom4=E7D37272-4931-11ED-8D0D-F0062152A482&at_campaign=64&fbclid=IwAR0Waw3igE0Hqc9VQfDxBbn66O_OMskLZ2DUxjCXcb5i2nqna3oDvt2AAG0

I don't get it

 

a transport deal was signed in 2017 when the store was built so if not spent on the buses what would it have been spent on and what was the money previously being used for