So What Is In His Mini-Budget?

[Dromedary]

32 minutes ago, Anna B said:

........Have we all calmed down a bit now?

 

 

Now what were we discussing about Angela Rayner and Starmer.......   

 

Oh yes, she is a liability..........

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1528672/keir-starmer-sack-angela-rayner-labour-cabinet-reshuffle-evg

Edited September 25, 2022 by Dromedary

[Anna B]

8 hours ago, El Cid said:

The majority is generally in the middle ground. Tony Blair won by being in the middle ground. That only works in a two party system, because there are other party's on the left that people could vote for.

Would you vote in line with your socialist beliefs for the Green party or would you vote Labour to stop the Tories?

Can we please stop referencing Tony Blair and the 'middle ground' as being the be all and end all of his election success? Times were very different back in 1997. We'd just had 18 years of continual Tory rule under Thatcher who had changed the parameters by moving further to the right and establishing  Free Market Economics, which initially seemed to be going well.

We'd forgotten about the many thousands of unemployed miners and steelworkers it had cost, who had become an underclass we were taught to despise. We'd all bought our council houses and shares in the newly privatised Utility companies, and become aspirational, would-be Yuppies, which we tried to emulate by buying designer stuff on the never never trying to keep up. Debt rises and so the financial gap between rich and poor starts to widen.

We still  think times are goodish, but now the limp, not very inspiring John Major is in charge and seems obsessed with problems in the common market/EU, which we don't really understand, but we figure it's time for a change anyway. 

 

Along comes young and good looking, charismatic, Tony Blair, who climbs on the 'we're all middle class now' bandwagon, promises more of the good times and gets into number 10. He does nothing to stem Free Market Economics, why would he? The voters think it's working, (though the warning signs are beginning to work their way through the system and the economy is quietly overheating.) Neither does he quell the disquiet in the financial markets of the EU. He even survives an illegal war and gets a second term, but then hands over to Gordon Brown, a clever finance man, (who can see what's coming down the line but can't stop a runaway train) and then -Wallop!

Suddenly the  Global Free Markets have imploded, the chickens with all that debt are coming home to roost, and we find ourselves in the middle of a mega financial crisis the magnitude of which has never seen before! Even the world Banks are going bust. 

 

The World has turned on it's head, but the shifty Tories, aided by the media blame Labour for the problems and win the next election. We go from Aspiration to Austerity overnight. The banks start pumping fiat money into the economy to keep it going while at the same time the Tories start trying to claw it back to save money. How's that supposed to work? Well it quite simply can't, but lessons have not been learned, and there we stand with out finger in the Dyke trying to hold back the flood. Businesses go bust, unemployment goes up, so even more so people are prepared to take stagnated wages to keep their jobs, and workers rights to secure employment tumble. Rather than 'all being middle class now' we are dividing up into rich and poor, winners and losers; most of us being the losers; with services cut, stagnated wages, rampant inflation, cost of living crisis, and undermined by general insecurity and instability. We cast about frantically for a leader who can put things right. But no one can agree to who or what should be done. The country, in fact the whole world, is in turmoil.  

 

The winners in all this are the non dom Corporations who float to the top, having winnowed out all the smaller less successful competition, and ruthlessly exploited the tax system. (Occupy tried to educate people to what was going on back in the day, but got short shrift and ridicule in the media, so their message fell on stoney ground.)

So Free Market Economics (or survival of the fittest,) has become a cutthroat game for the ruthless, with no time for the unfortunate losers, of which there are a fast growing and ever expanding number; the science of profit before people. 

 

So let's not kid ourselves that we are in the same position as we were in 1997 when Blair came to power with his benign rhetoric and shiny shoes, riding the crest of the wave. We are living in very different times, requiring a different strategy. It's no longer about Labour or Conservative, it's about a war between the very rich and the rest of us. They won't be satisfied until they've stripped us all of everything we've got, and our rights to protest about it. 

 

You have to decide what kind of world you want to live in, and fight for it.      

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Anna B

[redruby]

9 hours ago, hackey lad said:

Some real nastiness on here . Has anyone noticed it’s all coming from the left ?

No. What I have noticed though is that there are lots of shouty people that don’t seem to be capable of critical thinking. The type that like simple slogans and simple binary choices.  

Edited September 25, 2022 by redruby

[crookesey]

Anna, you’re very good at documenting what you see as being ‘wrong’, however you don’t appear to have a solution it. Voting for any particular political party in the hope that they have the answer translates to them having more idea than us, I wish. If I could waive a magic wand and bring back coal mining, steel making, ship building, other heavy engineering etc, etc, along with all the ancillary industries that made them tick I would, but unfortunately I can’t.

 

France almost has a conveyor belt that ships asylum seekers to the U.K. rather than take any responsibility for them, we have become Benefits Bandits Bonanza Britain, perhaps some efforts to address this wouldn’t go amiss.

[El Cid]

3 minutes ago, crookesey said:

 

France almost has a conveyor belt that ships asylum seekers to the U.K. rather than take any responsibility for them, we have become Benefits Bandits Bonanza Britain, perhaps some efforts to address this wouldn’t go amiss.

It's a minor problem that we cannot solve, France don't want to help because they have even more.

I don't agree with Anna that it is a battle between rich and poor.

There are opportunities for everyone, but the benefits system does not help them.

This budget has just pumped more money into the economy. We need to get back to making good citizens, like education, education, education.

We need healthy citizens, more sugar tax, not less.

More exercise, so not electric cars, but public transport.

The media may push a class war, but how much people are taxed is less important.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Anna B said:

... You have to decide what kind of world you want to live in, and fight for it.     

What is that fight, in practical terms?  Terms that actually stand a chance of bringing about real change?  It's getting rid of the Tories, isn't it?  And how does that happen in this country at this time with the state its in?  It's not by picking an extreme position, and wishing and hoping that you can drag the slider way over to the left.  It's compromise, and appealing to those who can be appealed to.  Sticking your fingers in your ears and continuing to demand the return of Corbyn accompanied by an NHS run entirely on homoeopathy, Owen Jones for Home Secretary and the abolition of the monarchy is not going to free the country of whatever Faustian fate Truss has in store for us, should this malignant lot settle in for another five years.

[Anna B]

5 hours ago, crookesey said:

Anna, you’re very good at documenting what you see as being ‘wrong’, however you don’t appear to have a solution it. Voting for any particular political party in the hope that they have the answer translates to them having more idea than us, I wish. If I could waive a magic wand and bring back coal mining, steel making, ship building, other heavy engineering etc, etc, along with all the ancillary industries that made them tick I would, but unfortunately I can’t.

 

France almost has a conveyor belt that ships asylum seekers to the U.K. rather than take any responsibility for them, we have become Benefits Bandits Bonanza Britain, perhaps some efforts to address this wouldn’t go amiss.

My solution was Jeremy Corbyn, which is why I was so disappointed to see him trashed on such a personal level. It's interesting to see politicians coming round to his way of thinking and calling for similar things like nationalisation of our Utilities etc, but that was before Truss.

What we need is decent, honest politicians brave enough to take on the mega Corporations and get them paying the tax they owe. Do that, and most of the problems could be solved overnight, and we'd have the money to deal with the rest to mitigate the effect.

 

I'd build camps in the country to house illegal immigrants, and set them to work while their claims are being processed. No benefits, just bed and board. Those that don't qualify or measure up would be returned home.  

 

I'd change the voting system to PR or something like it and get the best of all parties working together with long term planning and solutions. I'd invest heavily in research and development to find new ways of doing things.  Rampant consumerism and constant growth is unsustainable so we have to find better ways to measure success. Global politics should be used to the advantage of the earth by acting together to improve eco issues, share resources equitably and level up. I'd also tax the super wealthy globally so there's nowhere to hide. They'd still have plenty left to buy their yachts and islands. I'd encourage philanthropy by offering challenges and attaching  their names in perpetuity to projects they personally finance. 

 

I'd change the education system to concentrate more on problem solving skills and creativity rather than examinations, and make it more holistic and practical, to produce well rounded capable adults. I'd even bring the army in to provide practical courses (or maybe 1 year mandatory National Service to bring kids up to speed and learn self reliance?) Everyone has talent and that should be nurtured and encouraged. I'd make sure colleges provided training in all the skills the country needs, and return Universities to beacons of Academia, (for those particularly gifted in the traditional subjects,) and make it all fully funded on the proviso that they work in the UK for a number of years afterwards. 

 

I'd stop slavishly following only the American model of Capitalism, and turn instead towards the Scandinavian and other successful countries to see how they do things, and adopt and adapt the best ideas. 

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. We are moving into a vastly different, brave new world, but still using 19th century thinking and methods. We move at a snails pace which is ridiculous in a fast moving modern world. We need to scrap 80% of red tape and 50% of the civil service.  

 

We need some radical new ideas and ways of doing things to meet the times we live in.    

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Anna B

[crookesey]

5 minutes ago, Anna B said:

My solution was Jeremy Corbyn, which is why I was so disappointed to see him trashed on such a personal level. It's interesting to see politicians coming round to his way of thinking and calling for similar things like nationalisation of our Utilities etc, but that was before Truss.

What we need is decent, honest politicians brave enough to take on the mega Corporations and get them paying the tax they owe. Do that, and most of the problems could be solved overnight, and we'd have the money to deal with the rest to mitigate the effect.  

 

I'd change the voting system to PR or something like it and get the best of all parties working together with long term planning and solutions. I'd invest heavily in research and development to find new ways of doing things.  Rampant consumerism and constant growth is unsustainable so we have to find better ways to measure success. Global politics should be used to the advantage of the earth by acting together to improve eco issues, share resources equitably and level up. I'd also tax the super wealthy globally so there's nowhere to hide. They'd still have plenty left to buy their yachts and islands. I'd encourage philanthropy by offering challenges and attaching  their names in perpetuity to projects they personally finance. 

 

I'd change the education system to concentrate more on problem solving skills and creativity rather than examinations, and make it more holistic and practical, to produce well rounded capable adults. I'd even bring the army in to provide practical courses (or maybe 1 year mandatory National Service to bring kids up to speed and learn self reliance?) Everyone has talent and that should be nurtured and encouraged. I'd make sure colleges provided training in all the skills the country needs, and return Universities to beacons of Academia, (for those particularly gifted in the traditional subjects,) and make it all fully funded on the proviso that they work in the UK for a number of years afterwards. 

 

I'd stop slavishly following only the American model of Capitalism, and turn instead towards the Scandinavian and other successful countries to see how they do things, and adopt and adapt the best ideas. 

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. We are moving into a vastly different, brave new world, but still using 19th century thinking and methods. We move at a snails pace which is ridiculous in a fast moving modern world. We need to scrap 80% of red tape and 50% of the civil service.  

 

We need some radical new ideas and ways of doing things to meet the times we live in.    

 

 

 

 

Sounds like a Communist Manifesto.

[Dromedary]

10 minutes ago, Anna B said:

We need some radical new ideas and ways of doing things to meet the times we live in.    

I agree but if you keep on regurgitating the same old ideas from previous posts it does not help to engage people.

 

The above sounds just like a Labour manifesto that sounds good but holds no real solutions to the problems.

 

***Having said that this seems to be going way off topic and no longer about the mini budget***

Edited September 25, 2022 by Dromedary

[hackey lad]

6 hours ago, redruby said:

No. What I have noticed though is that there are lots of shouty people that don’t seem to be capable of critical thinking. The type that like simple slogans and simple binary choices.  

Or effing and blinding