The Nhs Are Critically Short Of Staff, This Is Why (And It's Not The Wages)

[El Cid]

57 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Nursing used to be about vocation and ability, now it is about qualifications, ie a degree.

 

You and RJ should go into hospital management, it's will be quite lucrative for experts like yourselves.

 

I believe more than 40% of youngster's get a degree these days, so it's good that nurses get £30k+ and the ward house keepers etc. much less.

 

Degrees may be over emphasized, but they are not the enemy.

[Anna B]

28 minutes ago, El Cid said:

You and RJ should go into hospital management, it's will be quite lucrative for experts like yourselves.

 

I believe more than 40% of youngster's get a degree these days, so it's good that nurses get £30k+ and the ward house keepers etc. much less.

 

Degrees may be over emphasized, but they are not the enemy.

But are they useful? Or do they make people over qualified? As I said before, a lot of nurses think that hands on  nursing is beneath them when it seems to me it's the most important part of the job.

Even with degrees they aren't allowed to be in charge of the prescribed meds round. It has to be done by the ward sister.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Anna B

[Guest sibon]

1 minute ago, Anna B said:

But are they useful? Or do they make people over qualified?

Of course they are useful.

 

Give me an over qualified nurse any day.

 

You can have the one over there, with the leeches.

[Minimo]

On 14/10/2022 at 20:43, sibon said:

Of course they are useful.

 

Give me an over qualified nurse any day.

 

You can have the one over there, with the leeches.

Leeches are very much still used in NHS.

[Anna B]

We still value the NHS, as we should, but it does need reform, and that does not include privatisation which so far has been a disaster.

Profit and shareholders should have no place in the NHS. Any profits/savings should be ploughed back into the NHS to make it better, but there's no doubt that at the moment it's like pouring money into a bottomless pit, and it's not well spent. Most of it is going into the back pockets of the privateers.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Anna B

[ECCOnoob]

3 hours ago, Anna B said:

We still value the NHS, as we should, but it does need reform, and that does not include privatisation which so far has been a disaster.

I don't believe it is sufficiently valued though. I think its constantly abused, taken-for-granted by far too many people not contributing enough into the system. I think the extent and scope of the services offered exceed well beyond its original intentions. I believe there is far too little self-responsibility and people who expect the NHS to pick up the pieces for their own negligence, arrogance or self abuse.  I believe we have a glut of malingerers constantly turning to the system when they could perfectly well help themselves or even pay some of their own way if required. 

 

I totally agree that reforms are required and I would be a champion of an NHS remaining free at source healthcare for essential and necessary provisions. However I don't treat it as simply as the private sector must be excluded. There are things that we all should be contributing to and not simply sitting back and relying on government to provide for us through some bottomless money pit.

3 hours ago, Anna B said:

Profit and shareholders should have no place in the NHS. 

Why exactly shouldn't they?  There are lots of elements of the huge flabby NHS that could be served by the private sector. There are examples around the world of a hybrid combination of public and private health care provision. It seems to work out and there is no blind reason why we should dismiss it out of hand.

 

What exactly is so wrong with say, some support services of the NHS being done more efficiently and potentially cheaper by the private sector. Take for example administrative functions such as records retention, appointment scheduling or medical notes transcription.  If I compare a doctor to  my profession of the legal sector often they both still have very traditional methods of back office administrative procedure, such as what many deem archaic like audio dictation and transcription typists. For many years now the legal sector has been embracing things such as outsourced typing services, voice recognition, computerised records services, electronic post, secured servers all done by companies outside of the business. Is it so unreasonable for the NHS to at least consider such alternatives rather than insistence on traditional methods or spending vast amounts of money trying to recreate their own in house versions of already established systems?   The same discussion could easily apply to other services such as courier services, maintenance services, cleaning, catering....

 

Take something like hospital cafes and coffee bars.  Such services are not necessarily patient critical so why is it so wrong to consider allowing a private operator to come in and run them. A well-known coffee brand takes its place, they pay rent to the hospital which of course goes into the hospitals budget and provides what some would argue is a better and more consistent service to the customers. Think about the other net result. Less NHS money paid out in staffing and pensions and HR functions, no equipment or maintenance cost, less insurance and legal costs as they would all be born by the outsource company...

 

Now, I am not saying that privatisation applies to all and everything. What I am suggesting is we can't just shut down the debate with some oversimplistic approach of "privatisation = bad"

 

3 hours ago, Anna B said:

.... there's no doubt that at the moment it's like pouring money into a bottomless pit, and it's not well spent. Most of it is going into the back pockets of the privateers.

I wholly agree it is a bottomless money pit. Has been for decades. It's almost amusing that for all the screams and protests and chanting about funding cuts it's the one organisation that seems to be in some protective bubble with ever-increasing billions been thrown at it year in year out. It is ripe for reform and there is no reason why that shouldn't include a real consideration of the budget and where money is actually going.

 

Again, I think you are being completely oversimplistic in your comments. . Where's the proof that 'most of it is going to private profiteers'. .  I want to see the waste. I want to see exactly what these layers and layers of staff are doing. The organisation is said to be one of the biggest employers in the country. That's a hell of a lot of personnel and is it beyond reasonable to question whether they are all absolutely vital and that they are all pulling their weight.... If the answer is no, that is an obvious part of the budget to be cut right there.

Edited October 16, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[Padders]

I agree, too many people abuse the NHS.

I was cutting the hedge last month and I got a thorn stuck in my index finger, when I arrived at A&E there was a massive 4 hour queue of people with minor ailments, when I finally got to see a doctor, he referred me to a nurse, which took another hour.

The nurse performed an operation using a pair of tweezers, and gently removed it...

5 Hours, I could have died.

[Chekhov]

Something else I bet few people (who do not work in hospitals) have thought of !

Getting to a hospital by car is really quite difficult. Not the driving there you understand, no it's the parking......

If you cannot use public transport then driving to a hospital and then having to find (or pay for) parking is a nightmare.

 

[hackey lad]

1 minute ago, Chekhov said:

Something else I bet few people (who do not work in hospitals) have thought of !

Getting to a hospital by car is really quite difficult. Not the driving there you understand, no it's the parking......

If you cannot use public transport then driving to a hospital and then having to find (or pay for) parking is a nightmare.

 

Shocking 

[Longcol]

55 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Something else I bet few people (who do not work in hospitals) have thought of !

Getting to a hospital by car is really quite difficult. Not the driving there you understand, no it's the parking......

If you cannot use public transport then driving to a hospital and then having to find (or pay for) parking is a nightmare.

 

Have you sent a graph to the hospitals Chief Execs explaining it?