2 Tory Councils On Brink Of Bankruptcy

[Mister Gee]

9 minutes ago, Axe said:

Already answered that question. It's pointless to attempt to reason with someone as biased as you.

 

 

 

A poor response.  It's the responsibility of those using figures or statistics to support a school of thought to provide evidence the figures are credible and not lookers on who smell a rat to prove the figure isn't true.

I smell a rat, prior to yesterday you’d spent 687 days in a cyber coma and after a few posts you give the impression that you’re a regular fixture on here.

[Delbow]

8 minutes ago, Axe said:

Already answered that question. It's pointless to attempt to reason with someone as biased as you.

 

 

 

A poor response.  It's the responsibility of those using figures or statistics to support a school of thought to provide evidence the figures are credible and not lookers on who smell a rat to prove the figure isn't true.

These are independent aren't they?

 

They give the average cut as 37% but note that it's higher in urban areas

[Mister M]

4 hours ago, Delbow said:

Very slippery. That includes libraries, I note. If that was agreed, it wouldn't be long before the UK became a country without public libraries. What a basket case.

It is completely dreadful.

I think many Libraries were geared up to be warm banks. If they shut them, where will people go to get warm?

Perhaps we could ask the Minister Without Portfolio, Nadhim Zahawi, if he wouldn't mind turning on the heating in his horse's stables, so the nation's poor can huddle in there. 

No worry about the money, Zahawi can claim the electricity bill on his parliamentary expenses, like he's done before 

4 hours ago, S35_2o21 said:

I know. There was a debate on Jeremy Vine at lunchtime R2 about potholes. Council tax payers (who presumably don't receive funded social care) are already unhappy about the services they receive. Libraries are such as visible presence in the community and without them, it would seem as though Council's don't contribute much at all.. 

This is my worry. If the Labour party does get in, there has been such an erosion of public services, it's going to take years to put it all back together. This Tory government are so ideologically driven.

 

They're also very crafty. I think a lot of the cuts to public services will start after the election, hoping that the incoming Labour government will get the blame 

 

26 minutes ago, Mister Gee said:

I smell a rat, prior to yesterday you’d spent 687 days in a cyber coma and after a few posts you give the impression that you’re a regular fixture on here.

Well observed. Wonder what their previous username was -West 77?

[Axe]

26 minutes ago, Mister Gee said:

I smell a rat, prior to yesterday you’d spent 687 days in a cyber coma and after a few posts you give the impression that you’re a regular fixture on here.

I've increased my post count by responding to others who have quoted me on one topic.  Do you have a problem with someone who is prepared to politely reply when quoted?

1 minute ago, Delbow said:

These are independent aren't they?

 

They give the average cut as 37% but note that it's higher in urban areas

You came up with a figure as high as 60%. Now after me questioning that figure you are down to 37%.  

[Delbow]

5 minutes ago, Axe said:

I've increased my post count by responding to others who have quoted me on one topic.  Do you have a problem with someone who is prepared to politely reply when quoted?

You came up with a figure as high as 60%. Now after me questioning that figure you are down to 37%.  

60% might be too high. But in urban areas we're looking at between 40 and 50% aren't we? Rather than councils being wasteful.

[hackey lad]

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

Does anyone still doubt that we are a country in serious decline?

Those at the top live in a bubble of splendour and are completely out of touch with what is happening in the real world. They still have delusions of grandeur and think we are a force to be reckoned with, but l beg to differ. We are becoming a laughing g stock and a banana republic.

 

This is a result of 40 years of free market economics in which winner takes all. The majority of people in this country are not among the winners any more. Any attempt at 'levelling up' has been nothing but empty Tory promises, meanwhile they have systematically reduced the support and services that people need and pay their taxes for.

 

The Tories bring a whole new meaning to the words 'shortsighted incompetence.' Unfortunately we have fallen so far it's probably unlikely we will ever be able to climb back up.

You forgot to mention "Neoliberalism " 

[Dromedary]

59 minutes ago, Delbow said:

These are independent aren't they?

 

They give the average cut as 37% but note that it's higher in urban areas

Two important points from that link:

 

Quote 1:

 

"In 2019/20, local authorities in England received 23% of their funding from government grants."

 

So they didn't actually get a great deal even before any recent cuts.

 

Quote 2:

 

"Central government grants – including retained business rates – were cut 37% in real-terms between 2009/10 and 2019/20, from £41.0bn to £26.0bn in 2019/20 prices. While grants from central government were cut, rates of council tax were increased. Local authorities raised 25% more council tax, in real terms, in 2019/20 compared to 2009/10."

 

So while its true that government grants were cut the local authorities also raised 25% more from council tax receipts. The point now being is how much of those cuts can be shown to have impacted on services?

 

Another point is in that link it also shows just how much some of our counterparts fare as it seem that they pay a great deal more in local taxation. In the UK is an average of 12%, 17% collected locally in Italy and 30% in Germany. In Canada its a whopping 50%. We have posters on here that are always quoting the Scandinavian model (socialist) as being better without acknowledging they also pay a great deal in taxation for that privilege.

 

So it seems that the way forward is for our local authority taxation system to change so it can be able to increase local taxation for the needs of the local area it is representing.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Dromedary
did a slinny

[ECCOnoob]

7 hours ago, Anna B said:

Does anyone still doubt that we are a country in serious decline?

Those at the top live in a bubble of splendour and are completely out of touch with what is happening in the real world. They still have delusions of grandeur and think we are a force to be reckoned with, but l beg to differ. We are becoming a laughing g stock and a banana republic.

 

This is a result of 40 years of free market economics in which winner takes all. The majority of people in this country are not among the winners any more. Any attempt at 'levelling up' has been nothing but empty Tory promises, meanwhile they have systematically reduced the support and services that people need and pay their taxes for.

 

The Tories bring a whole new meaning to the words 'shortsighted incompetence.' Unfortunately we have fallen so far it's probably unlikely we will ever be able to climb back up.

Despite your hysterical doom-mongering (again).  

 

We are still the six largest GDP in the world. 

We are in the top five for global health care. 

Three of our universities are named within the top 10 global index   

London is still number two in the global finance centres index just behind New York.  

We remain 10th in the world tourism rankings with nearly 40 million people visiting us on last count.

We have world leader credentials for our contributions to biomedical research.

Our aerospace research and industry is reported to be the second or third largest in the world.

We are ranked 5th on global innovation index.

We remain 7th on the world economic forum.

We were audited as second only to the US in terms of our geopolitical, diplomatic leverage and national strength.

We remain members of the G7, ECHR, NATO, UN Security Council and COP.

Our unemployment rate is bordering the top 20 lowest in the world rankings and our minimum hourly wage rate is in the top 10 highest world rankings.

 

…… Add on the fact that, according to the news, we must be doing something right considering we have boat loads of people desperately trying to get on to our shores everyday.

 

Now for once, why don't you try to do a bit of positive thinking.  Try looking beyond your back door at some of the real world out there.  Try not taking every slight inconvenience, downturn, disruption or closure are some overdramatic hysterical confirmation of the end of the world.  

 

Yes we are far from perfect. Yes, we are facing a rocky patch ahead of us. Yes there is some impact on the economy and the cost of living   Yes there is inbalance between the very rich and the very poor.  But, it is nothing that people in countries all over the world and not facing and haven't faced before. Stop being so deluded to think there's going to be some perfect utopia where everyone is equal and there is some declaration of fair share across the planet.  Stop taking every single headline at face value that automatically gets translated to blah blah Tory's bad blah blah rich people blah blah Thatcher to blame.

 

If councils are going bankrupt when they are cross party there is far far more to be questioned. How was the money being managed? where has it gone? is there allegations of mismanagement?  is there allegations of wastage? Is there investment failures? Are there areas that can be cut or unnecessary or duplicated elsewhere?

It's not so black and white.

 

To laughingly declare our country as some Banana Republic is complete nonsense.  

Edited November 15, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[Delbow]

34 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

Two important points from that link:

 

Quote 1:

 

"In 2019/20, local authorities in England received 23% of their funding from government grants."

 

So they didn't actually get a great deal even before any recent cuts.

 

Quote 2:

 

"Central government grants – including retained business rates – were cut 37% in real-terms between 2009/10 and 2019/20, from £41.0bn to £26.0bn in 2019/20 prices. While grants from central government were cut, rates of council tax were increased. Local authorities raised 25% more council tax, in real terms, in 2019/20 compared to 2009/10."

 

So while its true that government grants were cut the local authorities also raised 25% more from council tax receipts. The point now being is how much of those cuts can be shown to have impacted on services?

 

Another point is in that link it also shows just how much some of our counterparts fare as it seem that they pay a great deal more in local taxation. In the UK is an average of 12%, 17% collected locally in Italy and 30% in Germany. In Canada its a whopping 50%. We have posters on here that are always quoting the Scandinavian model (socialist) as being better without acknowledging they also pay a great deal in taxation for that privilege.

 

So it seems that the way forward is for our local authority taxation system to change so it can be able to increase local taxation for the needs of the local area it is representing.

 

 

Councils like Kent and Hampshire are struggling primarily because of the cuts that were made from 2010, so the most important figure is the 37% cut since then. Raising an additional 25% from council tax makes only a modest impact, because before 2010 Sheffield, for example, raised only 15% of its overall budget from council tax, so we're talking about 25% of 15% here.

 

But yeah, if we want functioning public services we have to pay for them. Unless central government reverses the trajectory of local authority funding, the next few years are going to be a cold wake up for England when people find out what not having functioning public services is like in reality.

[ECCOnoob]

3 minutes ago, Delbow said:

Councils like Kent and Hampshire are struggling primarily because of the cuts that were made from 2010, so the most important figure is the 37% cut since then. Raising an additional 25% from council tax makes only a modest impact, because before 2010 Sheffield, for example, raised only 15% of its overall budget from council tax, so we're talking about 25% of 15% here.

 

But yeah, if we want functioning public services we have to pay for them. Unless central government reverses the trajectory of local authority funding, the next few years are going to be a cold wake up for England when people find out what not having functioning public services is like in reality.

That is a very true statement.

 

In my opinion there is never enough actually doing that though. Take take take without enough people putting in. Far too many expecting things handed to them on a plate. For too many, taking things for granted, wasting resources and expecting others to pick up the pieces for their own irresponsible choices.

Edited November 15, 2022 by ECCOnoob