Reform Of The Nhs

[Anna B]

I think most people can see the need for reform of the NHS, but still want to see it 'Free at the point of use.

 

Is NHS care a right or a luxury? It's certainly a privilege compared with some countries, but it's not free as we pay taxes and National Insurance towards it.

 

It is underfunded, but at the same time it's not value for money as much of it is privatised, and used as a cash cow by certain pharmaceutical companies and outsourced service providers. But remember, we, the taxpayers, are still having to pay this as well, but it just goes straight into the back pockets of the multi-millionaires company owners, (most domiciled in no tax countries,) and never reaches the frontline. 

 

The people who procure these services are also in cahoots with the millionaires so do nothing to seek out better deals, and also deter competition so create monopolies which the NHS have to pay. They have no choice, the free market is not working for the NHS.

 

This needs to change.

The NHS needs reform, but how, when the multi-millionaires have it sewn up both ends. The answer is NOT an American system, which is awful. Most privatised systems require insurance, but the people who need the NHS services most like the elderly and those with specific illnesses/diseases do not qualify and wouldn't be able to get it..

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Anna B

[RollingJ]

What reforms?

[alchresearch]

36 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I think most people can see the need for reform of the NHS, but still want to see it 'Free at the point of use.

 

Is NHS care a right or a luxury? It's certainly a privilege compared with some countries, but it's not free as we pay taxes and National Insurance towards it.

 

It is underfunded, but at the same time it's not value for money as much of it is privatised, and used as a cash cow by certain pharmaceutical companies and outsourced service providers. But remember, we, the taxpayers, are still having to pay this as well, but it just goes straight into the back pockets of the multi-millionaires company owners, (most domiciled in no tax countries,) and never reaches the frontline. 

 

The people who procure these services are also in cahoots with the millionaires so do nothing to seek out better deals, and also deter competition so create monopolies which the NHS have to pay. They have no choice, the free market is not working for the NHS.

 

This needs to change.

The NHS needs reform, but how, when the multi-millionaires have it sewn up both ends. The answer is NOT an American system, which is awful. Most privatised systems require insurance, but the people who need the NHS services most like the elderly and those with specific illnesses/diseases do not qualify and wouldn't be able to get it..

 

Hard to know how to respond when you're all over the place.  How about:

 

"it's not value for money as much of it is privatised"

 

Define "much".  7%?

 

5. The NHS is being privatised
Myth: Some, mainly left-wing, commentators have argued for many years that the NHS is being privatised.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/health-and-social-care-england-myths

[rudds1]

50 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I think most people can see the need for reform of the NHS, but still want to see it 'Free at the point of use.

 

Is NHS care a right or a luxury? It's certainly a privilege compared with some countries, but it's not free as we pay taxes and National Insurance towards it.

 

It is underfunded, but at the same time it's not value for money as much of it is privatised, and used as a cash cow by certain pharmaceutical companies and outsourced service providers. But remember, we, the taxpayers, are still having to pay this as well, but it just goes straight into the back pockets of the multi-millionaires company owners, (most domiciled in no tax countries,) and never reaches the frontline. 

 

The people who procure these services are also in cahoots with the millionaires so do nothing to seek out better deals, and also deter competition so create monopolies which the NHS have to pay. They have no choice, the free market is not working for the NHS.

 

This needs to change.

The NHS needs reform, but how, when the multi-millionaires have it sewn up both ends. The answer is NOT an American system, which is awful. Most privatised systems require insurance, but the people who need the NHS services most like the elderly and those with specific illnesses/diseases do not qualify and wouldn't be able to get it..

 

Just listening on radio about Scotland talking about charging the more wealthy to use the nhs.    How would people prove they can or can not afford to pay ?

[RollingJ]

Means testing? = more bureaucrats, fewer nurses.

[ECCOnoob]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

 

It is underfunded, but at the same time it's not value for money as much of it is privatised, and used as a cash cow by certain pharmaceutical companies and outsourced service providers. 

Stopped reading after that sentence.

 

It is certainly not underfunded. It has had an ever increasing budget since it's inception with a report from a few years ago stating its annual budget has increased 12 times over since inception and now accounts for over 30% of all government spending.   

 

Have you stopped to think that perhaps it's not value for money because of some incompetence, inefficiencies, and waste caused by your precious public sector workers or perhaps those deluded union enshrined doctors and nurses continually making unrealistic pay demands and threatening strikes like clockwork every year...

 

Have you thought about all those unnecessary  additional services that the NHS seemingly now has to provide. All those quangos, side operations, lifestyle clinics, minority services which are arguably well beyond it's original scope of essential health care needs...

 

Have you thought about perhaps the selfishness of its service users who are failing to take responsibility for the lifestyles, taking it all for granted, wasting time and resources, not  contributing into the system and yet sitting there expecting the NHS to pick up the pieces for their irresponsibility...

 

No, as per usual it's a one-sided arguement blaming everything as the fault of privatisation. Everything always the fault of greedy, profit making corporates. Everything always the fault of those rich, neoliberals blah blah blah.

 

Yes the NHS is ripe for reform. Has been for decades. But if we're going to have the discussion, let's get real and consider full context. Let's stop putting it on a pedestal and banging on that somehow all it's operations are absolutely unequivocally vital. Let's stop portraying all its  workers as if they are selfless angels. Many of them aren't. Many of them are simply doing a job which some would argue can be done cheaper and more efficiently. Many of them are coasting to retirement after spending decades on the gravy train working their way up the layers and layers and layers of gradings.  Many of the services should quite rightly be in the private sector because there's no reason for the NHS to be spending vast amounts of money and resources keeping it in house and trying to recreate their own versions when other companies are far more established, far more skilled and far more efficient. In my opinion, this particularly applies to many of its administrative, auxiliary, catering and technical services.

 

Stop always pushing some agenda. Your constant oversimplistic naive position that public sector = good.  private sector = bad detracts from any actual genuine debate.

12 minutes ago, rudds1 said:

Just listening on radio about Scotland talking about charging the more wealthy to use the nhs.    How would people prove they can or can not afford to pay ?

Perhaps in that case, the wealthy should be able to decide whether they want to pay into the system whatsoever and have ability to opt out and choose to pay their own entirely private healthcare.

 

Let's see how that would affect the tax revenue's into little Jimmy Crankies purse.  I'm sure that would last long.  

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[RollingJ]

Thanks, @ECCOnoob- my thoughts exactly - although I have few more, but it is pointless trying to argue or discuss with a lump of stone.

[Anna B]

4 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Thanks, @ECCOnoob- my thoughts exactly - although I have few more, but it is pointless trying to argue or discuss with a lump of stone.

Is there any need to be insulting?

[RollingJ]

Just now, Anna B said:

Is there any need to be insulting?

Apologies, Anna, but as has been pointed out before, you are rather fixated.

[Anna B]

15 minutes ago, rudds1 said:

Just listening on radio about Scotland talking about charging the more wealthy to use the nhs.    How would people prove they can or can not afford to pay ?

Once again it comes down to a fair taxation system that gets a grip with the likes of Amazon, the big companies etc, and stops out and out tax avoidance/evasion.