Strike Action

[Slinny]

47 minutes ago, spilldig said:

I'm not saying people should not get pay rises to keep up with inflation but surely you can see that it increases the rate of inflation.

yes I can see that , But people still have to live ,More strikers on list today , The chancellor will be throwing us a few crumbs  I would like to have a count off the worth on tbe front bench , 

[Guest sibon]

2 minutes ago, Mister M said:

How can a hospital manager or ambulance manager just 'sort it'. Once again, if it were as simple as that, it would've been done already.

The point is, that it could be simple. All you need is somewhere to move patients to when they no longer need hospital care. You also need people to run facilities, that’s not so simple.
 

We built those Nightingale hospitals during Covid, maybe something like that would be an answer.

 

Or, we could just wait for Boris’ 40 new hospitals. They must be nearing completion by now.

[fools]

we've got rovers on mars, but are unable to build an extension with a few beds, and staff it.  Or use the ambulance crews more efficiently.

 

But we can buy a never ending lease for 50,000+ hotel rooms, and staff them

[Slinny]

11 hours ago, Padders said:

Slinny,

This government can find billions to fight the pandemic,

Millions spent on HS 2.

Millions sent to Ukraine,

Nuclear subs now being sent to Australia, a few more million,

No money for our treasured NHS. meks you think pal.

You have hit the nail on the head , I dread to think what we will have to put up with,
 if this lot get in again , Lineker mentioned the 30s well that will be where we will be heading , such has Hunt will make everything private , It will be cap in hand. Morning sir ,

[Mister M]

24 minutes ago, sibon said:

The point is, that it could be simple. All you need is somewhere to move patients to when they no longer need hospital care. You also need people to run facilities, that’s not so simple.
 

We built those Nightingale hospitals during Covid, maybe something like that would be an answer.

 

Or, we could just wait for Boris’ 40 new hospitals. They must be nearing completion by now.

We could build new hospitals, but that would beg the question why since the early 1980s have successive governments allowed hospitals, trusts etc to run down the amount of beds available in hospitals. 

I'm all in favour of increasing hospital capacity. Running concurrent with that there has to be a major drive on the part of governments in increasing the workforce to ensure that there are the staff to care for the patients that are in the beds. 

I think as an emergency measure the government has 'bought' some beds in private care homes as a temporary measure. But this would only be an emergency, as it will be prohibitively expensive. 

Community care is great in theory, but it was never going to be a cheap option, and typically governments have emptied loads of facilities and expected the care just to magic itself out of thin air. In many cases it's non existent, or it's so threadbare it's just laughable. 

The NHS and community care needs to be re integrated, back like it was in the days before thatcher decoupled them. Can't be and shouldn't be done on the cheap though.

Workforce planning over the last 13 years has been sacrificed on the altar of Brexit. All ministers energies have been put on that - and look what a basket case it's turned out to be.

I should add, in fairness, that respite centres have been set up, and as well as existing to give carers and patients with long term conditions a much needed break, they were also used as 'step down' for patients not needing to be in hospital. Sadly many of them have closed, or are not staffed sufficiently to be fully operational.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Mister M

[Padders]

2 minutes ago, Slinny said:

You have hit the nail on the head , I dread to think what we will have to put up with,
 if this lot get in again , Lineker mentioned the 30s well that will be where we will be heading , such has Hunt will make everything private , It will be cap in hand. Morning sir ,

Wouldn't the Tories just love that!

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, sibon said:

The point is, that it could be simple. All you need is somewhere to move patients to when they no longer need hospital care. You also need people to run facilities, that’s not so simple.
 

We built those Nightingale hospitals during Covid, maybe something like that would be an answer.

 

Or, we could just wait for Boris’ 40 new hospitals. They must be nearing completion by now.

Not simple at all.

We do need the new hospitals which Johnson promised  (which most of us knew we wouldn't get) but,  the biggest problem of all is recruiting and retaining medical staff.

If we had the resources to quickly build 40 new hospitals, we couldn't open them because  many doctors and nurses, do not want to work for the NHS.

This is not simply about pay rates but also conditions in general. Despite that, pay rates are the number one problem to settle. Many on here say that they would not give them a rise.

How do  you expect to recruit them then, and how do you stop them leaving?

Ever since the austerity program, our governments have been cutting back on hospital beds and wards. They have watched staff leave and not replaced them to save money.

If you want to have all the medical staff you need, you have to be prepared to pay a wage that they are willing to work for.

You may be totally against this idea but, it's either do that or manage as we are and let more of them leave.

 

In the same way, we can't recruit enough bus drivers or railway workers either and yet, no one seems to know why this is?

It's very strange how there is never a shortage of people wanting to be MP's and government ministers isn't it?

That should tell you something.

 

 

 

 

[Guest sibon]

Just now, Organgrinder said:

Not simple at all.

We do need the new hospitals which Johnson promised  (which most of us knew we wouldn't get) but,  the biggest problem of all is recruiting and retaining medical staff.

If we had the resources to quickly build 40 new hospitals, we couldn't open them because  many doctors and nurses, do not want to work for the NHS.

This is not simply about pay rates but also conditions in general. Despite that, pay rates are the number one problem to settle. Many on here say that they would not give them a rise.

How do  you expect to recruit them then, and how do you stop them leaving?

Ever since the austerity program, our governments have been cutting back on hospital beds and wards. They have watched staff leave and not replaced them to save money.

If you want to have all the medical staff you need, you have to be prepared to pay a wage that they are willing to work for.

You may be totally against this idea but, it's either do that or manage as we are and let more of them leave.

 

In the same way, we can't recruit enough bus drivers or railway workers either and yet, no one seems to know why this is?

It's very strange how there is never a shortage of people wanting to be MP's and government ministers isn't it?

That should tell you something.

 

 

 

 

I agree with most of that. But don’t forget that the bed blockers need much less medical care than the people waiting to be admitted. So, recruitment of doctors isn’t an issue here.
 

Workforce availability might be, but that’s a problem that we’ve brought on ourselves through Brexit. It is also one that is fairly easy to solve.

[harvey19]

The problem with lack of doctors and nursing staff is simply we are not training enough.

The population is rising because of births in this country and immigration.

The NHS,  after care and carers should be all under the same umbrella.

Convalescant homes would free up hospital beds.

A complete and objective review of the NHS needs doing to identify which departments are no longer necessary or essential.

Stop the use of locums and staff agency services as normal to provide adequate staffing levels.

Review the working conditions and shift hours of staff.

Review salary levels.

Stop blaming political parties to score points from each other.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by harvey19

[Al Bundy]

3 hours ago, Mister M said:

And not just the lefties, there will be many people from all persuasions stuck in the back of ambulances for hours outside hospitals, waiting to be admitted, but they can't be admitted because the patients inside the hospital who well enough to be discharged, can't be discharged because of the lack of social care packages available.

Yeah, but I bet Linekar would not be one of them would he.