trastrick Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said: I'd advise folks to know what is going on in their own house before commenting on somebody else's house. Why did Rosaura Almonte aged 16 have to die? It's like listening to old men in a bar in Ireland thirty years ago. The word 'abortion' was never heard, never discussed and never commented on-ever. Despite the awareness that daughters and granddaughters would disappear from view, and sometimes never return from visiting England. If only you knew more about the country where you live: Abortion is punished by between 2 and 3 years in jail for women and helpers. Abortion is punished by between 4 and 10 years in jail for a doctor, nurse, midwife, surgeon, pharmacist or other professional. Why did Rosaura Almonte aged 16 have to die? Why did your President admit to reneging on an election promise as he was “not going to impose his personal opinion”' If you only knew more about the country where we live. Abortion on demand is rarely available anywhere in the world. Not even in the UK is abortion available on demand at clinics and hospitals... Why did Rosaura Almonte aged 16 have to die? It is you who do not know what is going on where I live! Like the Legal, draconian measures legally enacted by the "government", curfews, quarantines, masking and social distancing in public places, and restrictions on alcohol sales. they were, outside of major institutions, virtually ignored by the majority of people. It was business as usual, life as normal, bars and restaurants carried on their businesses, behind shuttered windows, or served openly in paper cups, while "eating". We'd lift our paper cups of cuba libres, or beer, to the smiling cops, as they came in for their take out. Except for the enforcing of travel restrictions that required me to be vaxxed in order to leave the country, and a few "token" arrests in the major cities, it was business as usual, for the most part. 2 years of normal living while you lot tried to survive your draconian government enforcement, The result? Compare the COVID mortality rates of the "enlightened" West with ours here. As for abortion being illegal, that is the democratically elected government's position at the moment, but abortion is always "available" to those who choose it. In fact it is rather routine in some parts of the country, where a young girl can go to a clinic, for her "health". , and free birth control devices are widely available. Dominican Republic Decriminalizes Abortion in Limited ... https://reproductiverights.org › Stories Dec 22, 2014 — “Although the Dominican Republic has only allowed legal abortion in limited circumstances, it is still an important step forward for women's ... Women's Rights in the Dominican Republic Take Center ... https://reproductiverights.org › Stories Mar 25, 2014 — Despite clear and consistent evidence that restrictive abortion laws do nothing to decrease the prevalence of abortion, the Dominican Republic ... The abortion debate in the Dominican Republic - PubMed https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › ... PIP: Faced with a situation in which an estimated 60,000 illegal abortions (a major cause of maternal mortality) were performed annually, the Dominican Republic ... Estimated Levels of Induced Abortion in Six Latin ... - jstor https://www.jstor.org › stable by S Singh · 1994 · Cited by 179 — from 23 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-49 in Mexico to 52 per 1,000 in Peru, and the absolute number ranges from 82,000 in the Dominican..... I'd suggest that you and the West should save your outrage, against this happy, democratic society, and concentrate more on Mad Mullah States where women and gays stoned to death and where slavery still exists among your United Nations Member States, Or even that corrupt basket case next door, Haiti! (And there are a lot of cases in your country, where one could ask, why did THIS or THAT person have to die?) Not to mention your endless European Wars! Edited December 10, 2022 by trastrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, trastrick said: It is you who do not know what is going on where I live! I think everyone has established exactly who has no idea what's going on on their doorstep Quote Compare the COVID mortality rates of the "enlightened" West with ours here. Similar to the UK's, around half that of the US, way more than that of France! Quote As for abortion being illegal, that is the democratically elected government's position at the moment, but abortion is always "available" to those who choose it. Yeah, you forgot to mention it's at some back street, completely unsafe location, where that's an unacceptably high probability of dying. Quote In fact it is rather routine in some parts of the country, where a young girl can go to a clinic, for her "health". A claim that stands in complete contrast to reality: 95-97% of the abortions are unsafe, done by people lacking needed skills or in places that do not meet minimal medical standards ~10% of Maternal deaths in DR are a direct result of botched, illegal abortions. Quote Dominican Republic Decriminalizes Abortion in Limited ... Did you actually read any of those links? 'cos it sure doesn't look like it. Certainly you clearly did not understand the information in them! The reality: https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/11/19/its-your-decision-its-your-life/total-criminalization-abortion-dominican-republic https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/11/19/dominican-republic-abortion-ban-endangers-health ..and more recently still: https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/22/dominican-republic-end-total-abortion-ban https://www.axios.com/2022/05/05/only-3-countries-have-rolled-back-abortion-rights-since-1994 Dominican Republic: Abortion is banned altogether Quote I'd suggest that you and the West should save your outrage, against this happy, democratic society, and concentrate more on Mad Mullah States where women and gays stoned to death and where slavery still exists among your United Nations Member States, Or even that corrupt basket case next door, Haiti! From the poster who just highlighted they literally have no idea what's going on on their own doorstep, to the point they had to make a load of stuff up and lie about it with articles so out of date, or so clearly misunderstood, it's laughable! Quote Not to mention your endless European Wars! You realise that every time you scream that you're actually highlighting a cognitive impairment.... right? Yet another car-crash post, that does nothing but highlight either a total lack of any intellectual integrity and honesty... ...or simply an example of staggering levels of ignorance. Edited December 10, 2022 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Bynnol Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 1 hour ago, trastrick said: It is you who do not know what is going on where I live! Like the Legal, draconian measures legally enacted by the "government", curfews, quarantines, masking and social distancing in public places, and restrictions on alcohol sales. they were, outside of major institutions, virtually ignored by the majority of people. It was business as usual, life as normal, bars and restaurants carried on their businesses, behind shuttered windows, or served openly in paper cups, while "eating". We'd lift our paper cups of cuba libres, or beer, to the smiling cops, as they came in for their take out. Except for the enforcing of travel restrictions that required me to be vaxxed in order to leave the country, and a few "token" arrests in the major cities, it was business as usual, for the most part. 2 years of normal living while you lot tried to survive your draconian government enforcement, The result? Compare the COVID mortality rates of the "enlightened" West with ours here. As for abortion being illegal, that is the democratically elected government's position at the moment, but abortion is always "available" to those who choose it. In fact it is rather routine in some parts of the country, where a young girl can go to a clinic, for her "health". , and free birth control devices are widely available. Dominican Republic Decriminalizes Abortion in Limited ... https://reproductiverights.org › Stories Dec 22, 2014 — “Although the Dominican Republic has only allowed legal abortion in limited circumstances, it is still an important step forward for women's ... Women's Rights in the Dominican Republic Take Center ... https://reproductiverights.org › Stories Mar 25, 2014 — Despite clear and consistent evidence that restrictive abortion laws do nothing to decrease the prevalence of abortion, the Dominican Republic ... The abortion debate in the Dominican Republic - PubMed https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › ... PIP: Faced with a situation in which an estimated 60,000 illegal abortions (a major cause of maternal mortality) were performed annually, the Dominican Republic ... Estimated Levels of Induced Abortion in Six Latin ... - jstor https://www.jstor.org › stable by S Singh · 1994 · Cited by 179 — from 23 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-49 in Mexico to 52 per 1,000 in Peru, and the absolute number ranges from 82,000 in the Dominican..... I'd suggest that you and the West should save your outrage, against this happy, democratic society, and concentrate more on Mad Mullah States where women and gays stoned to death and where slavery still exists among your United Nations Member States, Or even that corrupt basket case next door, Haiti! (And there are a lot of cases in your country, where one could ask, why did THIS or THAT person have to die?) Not to mention your endless European Wars! In your country Article 37 of the Dominican Constitution: "The right to life is inviolable from the moment of conception and until death." Abortion is completely illegal in your country in any event and punishable by 2-10 years in jail. You say "... abortion is available on demand at clinics and hospitals here. and is a common practice amongst younger females." So which view is correct? You or your Government,Constitution or Law. To save you even further wriggling discomfort you should know that: Your information is out of date. Your government withdrew the exceptions applied to 'deformity', threat to mothers life, rape and incest. Your president reneged on his election promise to liberalize some abortion laws. Your police since 2012 arrest women seeking medical after an illegal abortion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trastrick Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said: In your country Article 37 of the Dominican Constitution: "The right to life is inviolable from the moment of conception and until death." Abortion is completely illegal in your country in any event and punishable by 2-10 years in jail. You say "... abortion is available on demand at clinics and hospitals here. and is a common practice amongst younger females." So which view is correct? You or your Government,Constitution or Law. To save you even further wriggling discomfort you should know that: Your information is out of date. Your government withdrew the exceptions applied to 'deformity', threat to mothers life, rape and incest. Your president reneged on his election promise to liberalize some abortion laws. Your police since 2012 arrest women seeking medical after an illegal abortion. People here pay lip service to their government edicts. A little selective enforcement here and there to :show that they are doing their job, for the noisy minority, but have pragmatically decided to let the people live in relative freedom. There are health laws regulating the selling of food, but they don't stop street vendors, especially Haitians, who ply their trade on the streets in traditional fashion, or roasting a pig or chickens on a street corner. There's a common sense balance between laws and enforcement and traditional values, that those who live in nanny states, where every aspect of life is regulated for the common sense challenged sheep, may find odd! But here are lots of expats here from the UK, permanently. I don't see Dominicans floating up on rafts to your "enlightened" shores. Do you? I'll remind of your usual advice to me. Opinions of "foreigners" on a society from afar, are not always valid! Stay safe! "… Down at the market you can hear Ladies cry out while on their heads they bear Ackee, rice, saltfish are nice And the rum is fine any time of year" - Belafonte Edited December 10, 2022 by trastrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, trastrick said: Opinions of "foreigners" on a society from afar, are not always valid! Just another load of rambling gibberish, entirely disconnected from anything the post was responding to. Edited December 10, 2022 by Magilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 9 hours ago, trastrick said: The world doesn't revolve around England and Wales, pal. But THIS particular thread DOES. English law does not apply to the rest of the world so again, not relevant what happens in the rest of the world re abortion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Bynnol Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 23 hours ago, trastrick said: People here pay lip service to their government edicts. A little selective enforcement here and there to :show that they are doing their job, for the noisy minority, but have pragmatically decided to let the people live in relative freedom. There are health laws regulating the selling of food, but they don't stop street vendors, especially Haitians, who ply their trade on the streets in traditional fashion, or roasting a pig or chickens on a street corner. There's a common sense balance between laws and enforcement and traditional values, that those who live in nanny states, where every aspect of life is regulated for the common sense challenged sheep, may find odd! But here are lots of expats here from the UK, permanently. I don't see Dominicans floating up on rafts to your "enlightened" shores. Do you? I'll remind of your usual advice to me. Opinions of "foreigners" on a society from afar, are not always valid! Stay safe! "… Down at the market you can hear Ladies cry out while on their heads they bear Ackee, rice, saltfish are nice And the rum is fine any time of year" - Belafonte And to the tunes of an American folk singer and film star you dismiss the laws of your country that forbade treatment a dying child who happened to be pregnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trastrick Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said: And to the tunes of an American folk singer and film star you dismiss the laws of your country that forbade treatment a dying child who happened to be pregnant. Somebody once said, "The Law is an Ass!" Smart guy, he was! As I was saying, The people here are resourceful. Some 90,000 abortions take place here every year, and 4,4 million across Latin America. Here are some of the ways Latin American women’s experiences with medical abortion in settings where abortion is legally restricted Medical Abortion "Medical abortion (MA) refers to the use of a drug or a combination of drugs to terminate pregnancy. Mifepristone followed by misoprostol is the most effective and recommended regime. In settings where mifepristone is not available, misoprostol alone is used.b Mifepristone is an anti-progestin that blocks the action of progesterone, a hormone necessary to maintain a pregnancy, and alters the endometrium causing the uterine lining to shed. Misoprostol is an analog of prostaglandin E1 that causes the cervix to soften and the uterus to contract, resulting in the expulsion of the uterine contents[7]. Until 63 days of gestation WHO recommends 200 mg of miefepristone administered orally followed by 800 mcg of misoprostol administered vaginally, buccally or sublingually 24 to 48 hours following ingestion of mifepristone[8]. In the case of misoprostol alone, WHO recommends 800 mcg of misoprostol administered by vaginal or sublingual routes, up to three repeat doses at intervals of at least three hours[8]." https://reproductive-health-journal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1742-4755-9-34 What are the abortion services available in the Dominican Republic? "The services that women can access are not regulated and are: Abortion in underground Clinics Medical / Health Personnel Giving Unregulated Guidance Herbal Medicine Abortion (In case you know the medicinal combinations or receive guidance from someone else) Sometimes these abortions are not completed due to limited knowledge of this kind of procedures. Abortion with pills (They can be obtained clandestinely by buying them in pharmacies or by paying bribes to the pharmacy staff). There are women’s networks that have emerged from underground to support other women in deciding about their own bodies with regulated, up-to-date and hopeful guidance. Other networks work communally, by word of mouth and the support and accompaniment is more direct depending on whether it is urban or rural. Who can provide a safe abortion in the Dominican Republic? "Due to the clandestine context, it is complicated to access a service which is 100% safe. Where can I go to access a safe abortion? Some private clinics can perform these procedures. However due to highly restrictive context, there is no clinic or health center who is able to provide it in optimal conditions. It is important to consider that there are feminist collectives that provide discrete and safe informations, but overall, stigma free. How much does an abortion cost? For a woman who is able to pay for a clandestine abortion in a private clinic or health center, the approximate costs range between 10,000 and 30,000 Dominican pesos (175 to 500 USD) The prices could be higher, and it will depend on the guarantees of the place and economic conditions of the Girl and/or woman requesting the service. Aborting with pills will cost between 2,500 and 3,000 Dominican Pesos (43 to 55 US Dollars. It will also depend on the extra payment to a third party to get the pills or to the pharmacist to sell them. They tend to be cheaper or free when they can be accessed through women’s movements that support this practice. What are the legal and safe medications available? Cytotec/Misoprostol/Misodel. Pharmacies sell the medications that are used to have an abortion with a Medical prescription and Drug Control approval. Abortion pills are regularly used to work for other medical conditions besides abortion. Where can I get abortion pills? You can get Misoprostol without a prescription, but it takes a while to get the full dose. Over-the-counter pharmacies are neighborhood drugstores, but they are likely to inflate the price. The easiest way is to get them from pharmacists who sell them clandestinely. They can be obtained by asking for Women Help Women via the Web, but only middle-class women or those with better economic conditions who handle technological issues have access to these channels. https://www.howtouseabortionpill.org/abortion-laws-by-country/dominican-republic/ NIH National Library of Medicine Misoprostol and declining abortion-related morbidity in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic: a temporal association Abstract Objective: To validate anecdotal reports that abortion-related complications decreased in the Dominican Republic after the introduction of misoprostol into the country. Design: Retrospective records reviews and cross-sectional surveys, interviews and focus groups. Setting: Family planning clinics, pharmacies, door-to-door canvassing and a tertiary care maternity hospital in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. Population: Women of reproductive age in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. Methods: Qualitative and quantitative methods were used. Individual interviews and focus groups of reproductive health professionals, non-governmental organisation leaders and women's group leaders (n= 50) were conducted to discover the role of misoprostol in the Dominican Republic. Local women (n= 157) were surveyed to determine their knowledge of misoprostol as an abortifacient and mystery client visits were made to 80 pharmacies in order to purchase misoprostol without a prescription. Sales data were obtained that documented when misoprostol was introduced to the Dominican Republic pharmacies. Hospital admissions for abortions from the prior eight years were reviewed and hospital emergency room consultation ledgers of 31,190 visits for the period 1994-2001 were reviewed for abortion complications. Main outcome measures: Frequencies of maternal morbidities and knowledge of misoprostol. Results: Mystery clients purchased misoprostol without a prescription in nearly 64% of pharmacies; staff provided little additional information or counselling. Reliable sales data documented the introduction of misoprostol in 1986. Abortion complications decreased from 11.7% of abortions in 1986 to 1.7% in 2001. The majority of professionals interviewed felt that knowledge of these findings should be made public. Conclusions: The data were of too poor quality to validate the verbal reports reliably, but misoprostol appears to have been widely used over a period when abortion-related morbidity fell. It remains plausible that the use of misoprostol contributed to the reduction. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16101610/ "I want to be where the sun warms the sky When it's time for siesta you can watch them go by Beautiful faces, no cares in this world Where a girl loves a boy, and a boy loves a girl" La Isla Bonita Edited December 11, 2022 by trastrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, trastrick said: Somebody once said, "The Law is an Ass!" Given that your posted links broadly support Annie's, and my claims... ...and short of "yeah, abortions happen", in no way support yours! Not just the law, clearly! Slow clap! 👏 Edited December 11, 2022 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 This thread took a turn, eh? I like the inclusion of song lyrics though. I'll have a bash: The twitching impulse is to speak your mind I'll lend you my microscope and maybe you will find it. - All The Rage - Elvis Costello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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