National Anthem

[harvey19]

27 minutes ago, PRESLEY said:

Well said Anna. Anyhow the football teams are the best example for reactions to their National Anthems,  just a couple spring to mind, Portugal and France,  you can see the pride and enthusiasm whilst they sing tribute to their country not like our lot, bored stiffless lookin all over the shop with a severe lack of interest, I can't blame em due the embarrasing behavior of our disfunctional Royals. Who wants to be on a World stage singin about that lot 

Maybe the National Anthem should be sung in schools at the end of morning assembly.

[m williamson]

15 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Maybe the National Anthem should be sung in schools at the end of morning assembly.

First of all it's a dirge, which would put them to sleep before lessons, secondly not everyone in this country is a monarchist and there is enough obsequious nonsense in the country without instilling it into children.

Americans having their children pledge allegiance to the flag is overdoing it in my opinion but at least the allegiance is to the country and not some fallible human who has every chance of embarrassing everyone at some stage.

[harvey19]

2 minutes ago, m williamson said:

First of all it's a dirge, which would put them to sleep before lessons, secondly not everyone in this country is a monarchist and there is enough obsequious nonsense in the country without instilling it into children.

Americans having their children pledge allegiance to the flag is overdoing it in my opinion but at least the allegiance is to the country and not some fallible human who has every chance of embarrassing everyone at some stage.

Monarchist or not it is loyalty.

[m williamson]

3 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Monarchist or not it is loyalty.

No it isn't, it's servility.

In this country unless a person is prepared to swear an oath of allegiance to the crown they are debarred from certain jobs, professions and public service.

Without taking the oath you cannot serve as a police officer, a member of the armed services, a magistrate, a Member of Parliament plus a number of other employments. It's a totally ridiculous anachronistic situation which makes this country look like Ruritania.

[harvey19]

4 minutes ago, m williamson said:

No it isn't, it's servility.

In this country unless a person is prepared to swear an oath of allegiance to the crown they are debarred from certain jobs, professions and public service.

Without taking the oath you cannot serve as a police officer, a member of the armed services, a magistrate, a Member of Parliament plus a number of other employments. It's a totally ridiculous anachronistic situation which makes this country look like Ruritania.

In your view, which I disagree with.

You seem to class loyalty the same as servility.

[Thirsty Relic]

4 hours ago, harvey19 said:

If it was changed to Land of Hope and Glory can you imagine the criticism from some quarters of the Glory part.

....or the Hope part the way things are at present!

[PRESLEY]

1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

Maybe the National Anthem should be sung in schools at the end of morning assembly.

They don't need depressing and brainwashing before the start of the day, anyhow its hard enough as it is to get kids to go to school.  

[m williamson]

13 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

In your view, which I disagree with.

You seem to class loyalty the same as servility.

Don't be ridiculous. They are totally different. You can be loyal to your family, loyal to your county, loyal to your country, loyal to your football club but you're not in any way servile to any of them.

Swearing loyalty to the crown is accepting that the monarch is above you, you are giving your fealty to that person. I, and many more people in this country refuse to do so, we are not subjects we are citizens. 

Anyone who wishes to continue to tug their forelock and believe that they have ' betters ' can do so, just leave the rest of us out of it.

[harvey19]

9 minutes ago, PRESLEY said:

They don't need depressing and brainwashing before the start of the day, anyhow its hard enough as it is to get kids to go to school.  

Maybe at the end of the day then. LOL

9 minutes ago, m williamson said:

Don't be ridiculous. They are totally different. You can be loyal to your family, loyal to your county, loyal to your country, loyal to your football club but you're not in any way servile to any of them.

Swearing loyalty to the crown is accepting that the monarch is above you, you are giving your fealty to that person. I, and many more people in this country refuse to do so, we are not subjects we are citizens. 

Anyone who wishes to continue to tug their forelock and believe that they have ' betters ' can do so, just leave the rest of us out of it.

You mentioned servility.

If our country was at war would you refuse to defend it as you would have to swear an oath of allegiance to be a member of the armed forces ?

Don't you believe anyone in society is above you in the pecking order ?

You can think what you want but the reality is different.

[m williamson]

7 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Maybe at the end of the day then. LOL

You mentioned servility.

If our country was at war would you refuse to defend it as you would have to swear an oath of allegiance to be a member of the armed forces ?

Don't you believe anyone in society is above you in the pecking order ?

You can think what you want but the reality is different.

My father detested the monarchy and politicians in general. He served this country throughout WW2. He saw action in France, North Africa and Italy.

He was once asked why he served as he had no respect for the monarchy. He explained that he had fought for his family, his friends and his country in that order. You don't need to be subservient to have a love of your country.

In answer to your question no I don't believe anyone is above me in the ' pecking order '. As a small boy I asked my mother what this aristocracy stuff was all about and her answer was " I want you to remember two things for the rest of your life, first there is no man woman or child on this planet ' better ' than you, secondly by the exact same token you are no better than any man woman or child on this planet. "

 

As young as I was I understood that she was talking about intrinsically better. There are lots of people better than me at certain things and also a few not as good at other things, but in terms of worth as human beings we are all equal.

I have had an interesting life during the course of which I have met many people, a number of whom were well known including a royal prince, a head of state,  numerious professors including a world famous  physicist and several famous footballers and hurlers and have held conversations with them without ever being in awe of any of them.

Humans, are fallible and that applies to us all, abasing yourself in front of someone because they were born into a particular family is complete embarrassing nonsense.