Am I Out Of Touch.

[trastrick]

The problem is when welfare state addicts look to State (strangers) to raise their kids, look after their old folks, take care of their health, education, and life's necessities, the families and the communities are exempted from their basic responsibilities.

 

It's not at all surprising that they will be inevitably disappointed with the outcome.

 

An ex-pat, an American by birth,  was responding to the usual  criticism, in a discussion on the relative merits of Western vs DR quality of life.

 

Here's what he wrote:

 

"They (the DR) may not have a 60 inch TV , believe me a good number of them do,  or an air conditioner, but nobody around there is wanting for food.

It is also strange that I have never seen a family in the Dominican Republic sitting on the side of the road with all their stuff having been evicted from their house. I do not think I have ever even seen a homeless person in the Dominican Republic. Go to Santo Domingo, Santiago, and Puerto Plata and count the homeless people, which you would easily be able to do on one hand for the 3 cities combined. Then go to San Diego, LOS Angeles, San Francisco and do the same. Then you tell me which country is developing and the one that folks should feel sorry for."

 

The family and the community are the ultimate strength of a society, not the number of bureaurats employed, or the amount of money spent on trying to personally look after everybody.

 

There has never been, or ever will be enough money available for that, It requires spiraling Debt, and ultimately default, or rationing!

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by trastrick

[Anna B]

11 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

Remploy created well paid jobs for those that ran it. Unfortunately it was Labour who started the shutdown ball rolling with the closure of 29 out of 83 by Peter Hain I believe.The remainder were to undergo modernisation because they were being highly subsidised at the time to the tune of £25,000 per person. No Remploy factory actually made a profit so the coalition government decide to shut them. 

 

As said before if people want better then they have to collectively pay for it in higher taxes etc.

 

 

£25,000 per person? 

Another figure plucked out of the air. We never get a breakdown of these sorts of figures.

Remploy wasn't just about making a profit. It provided structure, self esteem and friendship and other intangibles that don't appear on a balance sheet. But what do I know.

I wonder how much it costs not to have places like remploy?

There's a cost to that too.

[RJRB]

11 minutes ago, trastrick said:

The problem is when welfare state addicts look to State (strangers) to raise their kids, look after their old folks, take care of their health, education, and life's necessities, the families and the communities are exempted from their basic responsibilities.

 

It's not at all surprising that they will be inevitably disappointed with the outcome.

 

An ex-pat, an American by birth,  was responding to the usual  criticism, in a discussion on the relative merits of Western vs DR quality of life.

 

Here's what he wrote:

 

"They (the DR) may not have a 60 inch TV , believe me a good number of them do,  or an air conditioner, but nobody around there is wanting for food.

It is also strange that I have never seen a family in the Dominican Republic sitting on the side of the road with all their stuff having been evicted from their house. I do not think I have ever even seen a homeless person in the Dominican Republic. Go to Santo Domingo, Santiago, and Puerto Plata and count the homeless people, which you would easily be able to do on one hand for the 3 cities combined. Then go to San Diego, LOS Angeles, San Francisco and do the same. Then you tell me which country is developing and the one that folks should feel sorry for."

 

The family and the community are the ultimate strength of a society, not the number of bureaurats employed, or the amount of money spent on trying to personally look after everybody.

 

There has never been, or ever will be enough money available for that, It requires spiraling Debt, and ultimately default, or rationing!

 

 

 

 

I am sure that there are those living in Mayfair  or Fulwood who fail to see  the poverty in their nearby communities.

https://borgenproject.org/tag/homelessness-in-dominican-republic/

[Anna B]

2 minutes ago, trastrick said:

The problem is when welfare state addicts look to State (strangers) to raise their kids, look after their old folks, take care of their health, education, and life's necessities, the families and the communities are exempted from their basic responsibilities.

 

It's not at all surprising that they will be inevitably disappointed with the outcome.

 

An ex-pat, an American by birth,  was responding to the usual  criticism, in a discussion on the relative merits of Western vs DR quality of life.

 

Here's what he wrote:

 

"They (the DR) may not have a 60 inch TV , believe me a good number of them do,  or an air conditioner, but nobody around there is wanting for food.

It is also strange that I have never seen a family in the Dominican Republic sitting on the side of the road with all their stuff having been evicted from their house. I do not think I have ever even seen a homeless person in the Dominican Republic. Go to Santo Domingo, Santiago, and Puerto Plata and count the homeless people, which you would easily be able to do on one hand for the 3 cities combined. Then go to San Diego, LOS Angeles, San Francisco and do the same. Then you tell me which country is developing and the one that folks should feel sorry for."

 

The family and the community are the ultimate strength of a society, not the number of bureaurats employed, or the amount of money spent on trying to personally look after everybody.

 

There has never been, or ever will be enough money available for that, It requires spiraling Debt, and ultimately default or rationing!

 

 

 

 

Interesting. 

 

Personally I think it's affluence that seems to make people care less. 

It's a Capitalist disease. I don't know why, but the more people have the less they want to give.  They lock themselves up in a little fortress to hoard what's their's and demonise/blame those without wealth as all their own fault and not deserving of help. They begrudge every penny that's spent on the poor.

 

In those circumstances, sharing shouldn't be a matter of choice but of fair taxation. A decent welfare system is necessary if people are not willing to do it voluntarily. And proper organisation provides a safety net for all, even those who think (mistakenly) they will never need it. 

 

    

[El Cid]

25 minutes ago, Anna B said:

 

Personally I think it's affluence that seems to make people care less. 

 

It's a Capitalist disease. I don't know why, but the more people have the less they want to give.  They lock themselves up in a little fortress to hoard what's their's and demonise/blame those without wealth as all their own fault and not deserving of help. They begrudge every penny that's spent on the poor.

People have been giving money to charity for decades, perhaps they think that the problem of poverty should be resolved?

I have donated £5 every month for over twenty years, plus other stuff.

Is that enough?

 

A elderly relative of mine lives on less than £500 per month, he saves almost £1,000 month.

[Dromedary]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

£25,000 per person? 

Another figure plucked out of the air. We never get a breakdown of these sorts of figures.

It's just a matter of looking. 

 

You may not like it but it is a true figure compiled by a disability charity called Radar (Disability Rights UK) who were big critics of Sheltered Factories as explained here.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/oct/30/remploy-factories-close-disabled-workers

 

 

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Remploy wasn't just about making a profit. It provided structure, self esteem and friendship and other intangibles that don't appear on a balance sheet. But what do I know.

That may be so but as said, if you want better then be prepared to pay for it.

 

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

I wonder how much it costs not to have places like remploy?

There's a cost to that too.

There is but in money value it's cheaper to have people on disability benefits.

[cuttsie]

29 minutes ago, El Cid said:

People have been giving money to charity for decades, perhaps they think that the problem of poverty should be resolved?

I have donated £5 every month for over twenty years, plus other stuff.

Is that enough?

 

A elderly relative of mine lives on less than £500 per month, he saves almost £1,000 month.

Whats he saving for .

[El Cid]

18 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

Whats he saving for .

He is too tight to spend it, it will go to his estate.

[Anna B]

19 minutes ago, El Cid said:

He is too tight to spend it, it will go to his estate.

Or pay for his care in a care home.

At £1,000 a week it will soon be gone.

[Dromedary]

3 hours ago, El Cid said:

....

A elderly relative of mine lives on less than £500 per month, he saves almost £1,000 month.

Just worked mine out and its less than £250 per month even with the price hikes and time of year usage, so to me £500 seems a little high, but I only save around £500 per month though!