Sheffield Congestion Charge From Feb 27th 2023

[Mr Bloke]

1 hour ago, Planner1 said:

In recent times, the Lib Dems have been in charge a couple of times and currently it’s a Labour / Green coalition in charge. Have you noticed much difference with any of them? Who else do you think is likely to make a better job of it?

 

53 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Do you seriously think it’s still the same chief executive, directors, senior officers and councillors who were around say 20 years ago? Sure there are the odd ones who’ve been around a while, but many have come and gone. There’s a constant turnover. 

 

 

The fact that you don’t like the way things are going doesn’t mean that council officers and members are incompetent. They are just implementing government policy and doing the best possible job they can.

Hmmm...

And that's because the people who plan and implement these schemes are the SAME incompetents employed by SCC US no matter which party is in charge of the council.

They just 'tweak' a few things to fit in with what they've been 'instructed' to do by councillors.

And we're all paying their salaries and allowing them to do it!

Does anyone really think that just because we might vote in a different party to run the council that these 'ideas' will dramatically change?

Of course they won't.

 

SCC employees (who are supposed to be the 'experts' and do this sort of thing for a living) blaming local councillors for their own incompetence is just a convenient excuse!

 

The SAME SCC employees will still have the SAME (limited) ideas!

That will only change when the FULL-TIME employees of SCC making these stupid decisions are also replaced...

... and we all know that's NEVER going to happen!

 

[HeHasRisen]

Replaced by people making the exact same decisions, you mean?

 

Be careful what you wish for.

[Planner1]

33 minutes ago, Mr Bloke said:

 

Hmmm...

And that's because the people who plan and implement these schemes are the SAME incompetents employed by SCC US no matter which party is in charge of the council.

They just 'tweak' a few things to fit in with what they've been 'instructed' to do by councillors.

And we're all paying their salaries and allowing them to do it!

Does anyone really think that just because we might vote in a different party to run the council that these 'ideas' will dramatically change?

Of course they won't.

 

SCC employees (who are supposed to be the 'experts' and do this sort of thing for a living) blaming local councillors for their own incompetence is just a convenient excuse!

 

The SAME SCC employees will still have the SAME (limited) ideas!

That will only change when the FULL-TIME employees of SCC making these stupid decisions are also replaced...

... and we all know that's NEVER going to happen!

 

You didn’t read what I wrote, did you?

 

It’s not the same officers.
 

In recent times the Chief Exec, Directors, Head of Service in Transport and Highways and the Team Managers in Transport Planning and Highway Design have all changed.

 

The solutions they come up with, particularly on something like the CAZ would not be different, no matter who you put in charge.

 

The government set the agenda for transport schemes. They provide the funding and make sure they get what they want. That’s why you see similar things happening across the country.

 

Also, majority of development work on major transport schemes is done by the private sector these days as most councils don’t tend to have the resources. Do you think the private sector are all incompetent too?

 

You may not like whats’s being done, and that’s fine. But, you shouldn’t label people as incompetent just because they don’t come up with the solutions that you would want. There are good reasons for that and it’s usually because that’s how the government wants it. 

[Mr Bloke]

11 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

You didn’t read what I wrote, did you?

 

It’s not the same officers.
 

In recent times the Chief Exec, Directors, Head of Service in Transport and Highways and the Team Managers in Transport Planning and Highway Design have all changed.

 

The solutions they come up with, particularly on something like the CAZ would not be different, no matter who you put in charge.

 

The government set the agenda for transport schemes. They provide the funding and make sure they get what they want. That’s why you see similar things happening across the country.

 

Also, majority of development work on major transport schemes is done by the private sector these days as most councils don’t tend to have the resources. Do you think the private sector are all incompetent too?

 

You may not like whats’s being done, and that’s fine. But, you shouldn’t label people as incompetent just because they don’t come up with the solutions that you would want. There are good reasons for that and it’s usually because that’s how the government wants it. 

And who have they been replaced by?

Surely not by long-serving SCC employees who've worked their way up to the top...

 

... not on merit, but by nodding at the right people and merely being patient and waiting for those above them to retire?

[Planner1]

1 hour ago, Arthur Ritus said:

No way man, I don't know if you really believe that rubbish or  just brainled as many in such organisations are,   data manipulated to whatever required . "Encouraging" traffic to use side roads when transversing  the city via the main arterial routes to save money won't help air quality, it will make it worst.
How is a person going to feel, hes come in on the a57 from manchester way, crawled along outside the zone causing pollution he doesn't want to as its costing him in fuel, basically coasts down Netherthope road  causing barely any pollution in the only bit of the zone he's used but has to pay the fine for it, then crawls along stop start Penistone road polluting again because of all the fuel he's wasting.  It wouldn't have been quite as bad if the inclined sections only fined for going up.
The existing ring road is rubbish should have underpasses / overpasses so traffic doesn't have to stop start and crawl in low gears all the time having to heat / light etc the vehicle (kills electric vehicles just as much). I recon it could have easily been done at Broadlane/ university roundabout  when they put the tram under with a shared underpass road for tram and vehicle like they share elsewhere. Back in the day they were able to build an underpasss bellow redgates - admitably wrong place, from the time when traffic was still being took through the centre but right idea.
 

Ok, we should have petitioned our elected councillors more before hand, personally i thought it too daft to actually happen but there you go, before i vote again i will try to find out if the candidate was in favour of this nonsense, no doubt at election time they will all be saying they were against it. We need to find out if we can whether they supported it or not.

Oh, right, so the council and the government have manipulated the air quality data ( that they’ve been collecting for many years) so they can charge a few drivers? And the government have done that all across the country? Really?

 

Nothing to do with the government being taken to court by climate activists and being forced by the courts to act? Nothing to do with the government putting in place legislation to allow them to passport on to local authorities any fines that are imposed by the courts for non compliance?

 

So the solution is more underpasses and flyovers is it? How come pretty much everywhere they are being taken down/filled in because PEOPLE find them a huge barrier to getting around on foot? Are you seriously trying to say Arundel Gate / Eyre St was a better place with the underpass and subways? Birmingham had more of those than most places and even they are removing them in order to have a city centre that’s on a human scale and better for people to get around, not cars.

[Planner1]

1 minute ago, Mr Bloke said:

And who have they been replaced by?

Surely not by long-serving SCC employees who've worked their way up to the top...

 

... not on merit, but by nodding at the right people and merely being patient and waiting for those above them to retire?

Nope, external appointments by and large. 
 

Interesting that the complaint you often hear from long standing internal employees is that they don’t get the opportunity to go up the ladder as senior / management posts are often filled externally.

 

If that is truly your perception of how it works, I can tell you you’re wrong and most people who work there will tell you the same ( certainly in the areas I worked in). 

[Chekhov]

16 hours ago, *_ash_* said:

Yep. I said it in the first page of this thread quoted below.

As a taxi, I obviously object to it as completely ludicrous and unfair!

The general consensus I see on social media is yes they agree with it, because they dislike taxis.

I tell them, 'you'll be next'. They are just doing it this way around to get away with it. If this was ALL vehicles except buses and taxis, there would be absolute uproar! I can't even find a thread about it!

So the plan is working well so far.

Absolutely spot on.

 

15 hours ago, HeHasRisen said:

Yes 🤣 well thats a few death traps off the road then I guess.

How many people die in bus accidents ?

 

Deaths per Billion passenger KM :

 

Car = 1.1

Bus =  0.2

Edited December 19, 2022 by Chekhov

[HeHasRisen]

3 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Absolutely spot on.

How many people die in bus accidents ?

 

Deaths per Billion passenger KM :

 

Car = 1.1

Bus =  0.2

Can we have the stats just for older buses, please? If not, your point is moot.

[Chekhov]

3 hours ago, Planner1 said:

The problem is that a large a large amount of cross city trips use the inner ring road.

The council don’t believe they will be able to achieve compliance with the required air quality standards unless the inner ring road is included.

I don’t think it is inevitable that private cars will be included. Experience elsewhere suggests the main polluters like taxis, buses and hgv’s will become compliant within a short time of the CAZ going live, so we should be able to see what difference it’s making when results are published.

That's a hostage to fortune P1......

3 hours ago, RollingJ said:

Well, for one thing, imposing on the Ring Road - designed and built at great cost to 'keep traffic out of the city centre' smacks of either incompetence or 'another agenda' . As I said above, the whole idea is beginning to look like a badly implemented money-making scam. 'The council doesn't believe...' from you post above - maybe they should wait and see?

 

Doesn't matter whether it is an LD or L/G council, they are still advised by the same officials, and presumably because they 'trust' those officials, their 'recommendations' are accepted.

Very good point.

And, let's remember, there is no outer ring road on the west side of Sheff (the M1 is effectively that on the east side).

[Resident]

4 hours ago, Rockers rule said:

Rather a sweeping statemen there Resident.

Driving for a living, different from having a run in T' country for a picnic.

Law breakers Taxi or otherwise susceptible to prosecution, fines, or removal of licence

 

Keep safe out there,

Keep yer distance,

Watch what the other buggers are doing 

I drive approximately 2500 miles a month & hold professional driving qualifications. 

I have friends that drive buses and in both our cases the worst drivers on the roads by experience.