Sheffield Congestion Charge From Feb 27th 2023

[blackydog]

2 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

Really cant imagine there is room for many cars inside the internal courtyards (assuming there are any) of the current Town Hall tbh.

Eh? I corrected myself.

[HeHasRisen]

1 minute ago, blackydog said:

Eh? I corrected myself.

Yes, I was addressing your comment about the "vehicular access at the rear" of the current town hall. Planner1 has answered it now anyway.

[blackydog]

2 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Its mainly used for service access and deliveries, not a car park as such. The main council staff parking is in Howden House and Moorfoot in the city centre

And as identified in the BBC link I provided, there are 377 free spaces available to council employees as of 2021 available in the city centre. Perhaps there still is. That's potentially 377 cars driving into the city centre, around it on their ever so urgent business, and then back out again. Don't look good for a council introducing a CAZ does it?

[HeHasRisen]

3 minutes ago, blackydog said:

And as identified in the BBC link I provided, there are 377 free spaces available to council employees as of 2021 available in the city centre. Perhaps there still is. That's potentially 377 cars driving into the city centre, around it on their ever so urgent business, and then back out again. Don't look good for a council introducing a CAZ does it?

To be pedantic, the FoI said "council buildings". It didnt say where they were. Are all the council buildings within the inner ring road?

[Planner1]

1 minute ago, blackydog said:

Fair level of hypocrisy there then you would agree?  I would imagine only a very small percentage of council business is urgent, so there is no excuse for not pre arranging meetings, or whatever it is they do, that cannot be reached by public transport. 

Lots of us have important business to carry out, and we have to make the best of the bad lot they have lumbered us with.

Only a tiny minority of staff use the council parking and the permits are allocated centrally with proof required of operational or medical need. Remember there are 7,000 or so council staff and about 300 spaces in the city centre council staff car parks.

 

My experience nowadays is that the staff who have the permits are very much those who need them to carry out their job. It wasn't like that years ago but the permit system has been in place for a good few years now.

 

Many staff can and do organise their meetings and site visits so that public transport or walking / cycling is practical.

 

However there are occasions for some staff that do require the use of their own car, for example visiting a site that doesn't have good public transport or multiple site visits or carrying large / heavy / valuable equipment. Some, social services are an example, get called out all over the place at very short notice, so a car is therefore the most practical way of meeting the business need. There are quite a few blue badge holders who work for the council and need their car to get to work for medical reasons.

 

The councillors do leave themselves open to the hypocrisy allegation but they contend that they have to come in to council offices at lots of different times, sometimes at short notice which they can't plan for, so they need vehicle access. I can understand that for some needs, but not all. This point was made strongly to the leading councillors and they know and understand the issue, so its' one for them to defend, not me or any council officer, as it isn't their decision.

[blackydog]

7 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

To be pedantic, the FoI said "council buildings". It didnt say where they were. Are all the council buildings within the inner ring road?

As I recall the council aren't that keen on assisting with FoI requests, so I imagine the response wasn't exactly received with open arms.

[Planner1]

10 minutes ago, blackydog said:

And as identified in the BBC link I provided, there are 377 free spaces available to council employees as of 2021 available in the city centre. Perhaps there still is. That's potentially 377 cars driving into the city centre, around it on their ever so urgent business, and then back out again. Don't look good for a council introducing a CAZ does it?

The council have several large offices and premises in the city centre where thousands of staff work. Some work the council carries out means that officers have operational transport needs that can't be met by public transport, walking or cycling. some services have council vehicles which park in those car parks (Parking Services for example.)

 

Public transport and active travel will not meet all business needs for all organisations public or private and no one expects it to.

 

The vehicles used by the officers will be subject to the same CAZ charges as any other ones, so I don't see what relevance there is to council offices having some operational parking.

[HeHasRisen]

5 minutes ago, blackydog said:

As I recall the council aren't that keen on assisting with FoI requests, so I imagine the response wasn't exactly received with open arms.

They would answer the question asked, I assume.

 

If the BBC asked "how many car parking spaces are there at Council buildings in Sheffield", without specifying a specific location, then thats the fault of the BBC.

 

Given around 5% of employees have a space,  the CAZ doesnt include cars, and if it does the cars will be subject to the same charges as anyone else (as mentioned above) which wont be paid for by the employer unless the cars are to be used on official business, I am not understanding the bedwetting here.

Edited February 3, 2023 by HeHasRisen

[Planner1]

3 minutes ago, blackydog said:

As I recall the council aren't that keen on assisting with FoI requests, so I imagine the response wasn't exactly received with open arms.

Last I saw when I worked there they tried very hard to comply with requirements on FOI requests.

 

The trouble with FOI's is that they were never intended to be used in the way in which people now use them.

[RollingJ]

Nothing to do with this debate really, but I noticed yesterday the 'Lord Mayors Official Car'  parked on the pavement outside the back left-hand corner of the Town Hall as you look down Surrey Street from Pinstone Street. I appreciate 'pavement parking' isn't strictly illegal, but there was plenty of 'on road' space. Probably just a driver who thought it didn't send a bad signal, but...