Sheffield Congestion Charge From Feb 27th 2023

[Litotes]

6 hours ago, Baron99 said:

Have tbey 'learned lessons'? 

No evidence they have,,,

 

The same old rhetoric is rolled out, the same old manipulation of the statistics is used - no reason to trust them more now than in previously.

 

They manipulated the data then, we should expect them to manipulate the data now...

 

 

But I expect those that work for (or worked for..) to claim the data wasn't manipulated.

Any statistician of any integrity would not back the numbers...

[mike1961]

4 hours ago, HeHasRisen said:

From a quick flick through Facebook todays protest was a poor turnout and hijacked by those denying climate change 🤣🤣 deary me

 

 

 

 

Just read what you want to read ,ignore all the positive comments 

[*_ash_*]

10 hours ago, Baron99 said:

My bold. 

 

Could you imagine if everyone left their cars at home this coming Monday morning.  Absolute chaos on public transport in Sheffield.  People would still be rolling into work at midday. 

Correct. 

 

The problem we have, is people say... things were better in the past. I think when no one had a car, and places like Sheffield had huge tram networks, they are probably right, but trams were slow, and cars became cheaper and more convenient. One thing people like is convenience. I'm no exception.

 

Actually, I'm not sure about the bus thing. Certainly, yes, buses were cheaper (to the customer, not to the tax payer), but I lived near a main trunk road, so I could pretty much rely on something getting me to work on time! However if you live off the beaten track, then bus timetables become extremely important. 

I wouldn't say I live off the beaten track now, but I'm very limited on buses services, and they are extremely unreliable.

 

 

 

 

[Baron99]

36 minutes ago, *_ash_* said:

Correct. 

 

The problem we have, is people say... things were better in the past. I think when no one had a car, and places like Sheffield had huge tram networks, they are probably right, but trams were slow, and cars became cheaper and more convenient. One thing people like is convenience. I'm no exception.

 

Actually, I'm not sure about the bus thing. Certainly, yes, buses were cheaper (to the customer, not to the tax payer), but I lived near a main trunk road, so I could pretty much rely on something getting me to work on time! However if you live off the beaten track, then bus timetables become extremely important. 

I wouldn't say I live off the beaten track now, but I'm very limited on buses services, and they are extremely unreliable.

 

 

 

 

The previous trams were gone before I was born but for a time, looking at Sheffield history, they also ran alongside a bus network.

 

  I'm a car driver but my wife isn't & she uses public transport for work but we both remember the days of the the 70's to the 90's, even after bus deregulation, & the bus services were refuloh & plenrhiwe have now is a very poor comparison service wise to what we used to have in Sheffield, regardless of the price of a journey. 

 

Lets face it.  If London had a similar poor bus service as Sheffield does, where even on the most popular routes you can't guarantee that an advertised bus will turn up,  then something would have been done years ago. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Baron99

[Resident]

6 hours ago, Baron99 said:

The previous trams were gone before I was born but for a time, looking at Sheffield history, they also ran alongside a bus network.

 

  I'm a car driver but my wife isn't & she uses public transport for work but we both remember the days of the the 70's to the 90's, even after bus deregulation, & the bus services were refuloh & plenrhiwe have now is a very poor comparison service wise to what we used to have in Sheffield, regardless of the price of a journey. 

 

Lets face it.  If London had a similar poor bus service as Sheffield does, where even on the most popular routes you can't guarantee that an advertised bus will turn up,  then something would have been done years ago. 

One thing people forget or probably don't know is that the SYPT vehicles were pretty much all scrapped when private companies took over because they were so ill-maintained by the council that most were dangerous and had no place being on the roads. Yet they passed MOT every year, which was done by the council themselves. They were dirty, smelly etc

People need to stop romanticising public owned buses.

Yes prices were a tenth of what they are today but so were the costsl. Drivers earned around 200 for a 50hr week in 1985, fuel was ridiculously cheap as the only real users of diesel were farmers, HGVs and buses.  Fuel companies sold it so cheap because it's mostly biproduct of petrol refinement. 
Also I was a young un at the time but I don't remember many, if at all, routes that left main roads to go into estates like they do today.  There were certainly no cross-city/county routes.  If you wanted to say, go from Walkley to Northern General, one bus to the interchange, another the NG and same in reverse. These days. 1 bus, the 95/95a.

[Planner1]

6 hours ago, Baron99 said:

The previous trams were gone before I was born but for a time, looking at Sheffield history, they also ran alongside a bus network.

 

  I'm a car driver but my wife isn't & she uses public transport for work but we both remember the days of the the 70's to the 90's, even after bus deregulation, & the bus services were refuloh & plenrhiwe have now is a very poor comparison service wise to what we used to have in Sheffield, regardless of the price of a journey. 

 

Lets face it.  If London had a similar poor bus service as Sheffield does, where even on the most popular routes you can't guarantee that an advertised bus will turn up,  then something would have been done years ago. 

The old trams got phased out across the country because buses became quicker and cheaper to run.

 

Back in the 70’s there were about a third of the cars on the road as there are now. That’s why bus services are not able to keep to timetable on many routes ( which generally run from one side of a city to the other through the centre).

 

London can afford a better level of service because there are circa 10 million people living there where there’s three quarters of a million here. But they have the same traffic problems we do.

 

What is it you think should be “done” about bus services here to make them run to timetable?

 

The council has been working with the PTE and the operators for decades making what improvements they can to speed up services. Buses get priority wherever it can be given. What else do you think could be done?

[Resident]

1 minute ago, Planner1 said:

The old trams got phased out across the country because buses became quicker and cheaper to run.

 

Back in the 70’s there were about a third of the cars on the road as there are now. That’s why bus services are not able to keep to timetable on many routes ( which generally run from one side of a city to the other through the centre).

 

London can afford a better level of service because there are circa 10 million people living there where there’s three quarters of a million here. But they have the same traffic problems we do.

 

What is it you think should be “done” about bus services here to make them run to timetable?B

The council has been working with the PTE and the operators for decades making what improvements they can to speed up services. Buses get priority wherever it can be given. What else do you think could be done?

Bus gate light priority seems to be a issue for most buses.  Carbrook St as an example. I've been on X1/X10 a number of times heading towards the city and been stopped there for upto 5 mins for the lights to change. Drivers have told me that the council have been asked to alter the timings numerous times but so far nothing. 

[cuttsie]

14 hours ago, Resident said:

But most bus users have got one foot in the grave. Although they should be a little happy that everyone else is paying for their travel....

 

And lots of those folk have paid in blood and sweat so as you can enjoy the cushy existence you enjoy today .

[Planner1]

10 minutes ago, Resident said:

One thing people forget or probably don't know is that the SYPT vehicles were pretty much all scrapped when private companies took over because they were so ill-maintained by the council that most were dangerous and had no place being on the roads. Yet they passed MOT every year, which was done by the council themselves. They were dirty, smelly etc

People need to stop romanticising public owned buses.

I get your point about rose tinted memories, but can you be clearer about who actually ran the buses.

 

From 74 to 86 the busses were under the control of SYPTE. 
 

The PTE are not the council. They are a separate body. You refer to buses being maintained ( badly) by the council.

[Planner1]

6 minutes ago, Resident said:

Bus gate light priority seems to be an issue for most buses.  Carbrook St as an example. I've been on X1/X10 a number of times heading towards the city and been stopped there for upto 5 mins for the lights to change. Drivers have told me that the council have been asked to alter the timings numerous times but so far nothing. 

There are always going to be the odd faults on traffic signals that take a while to fix for one reason or another.  Same in any major city.