Would You Vote For A British Republic?

[m williamson]

37 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

My father was also Royal Artillery.

153 battery, 51st Heavy Anti Aircraft Regiment. It was a London regt. but my father was with them because of his trade artificer.

Kenneth Rankin was a subaltern in the regt. and has written about their time in Tobruk. The books are Top Hats in Tobruk and Lest We Forget.

He was in I think 12th or 13th Light anti aircraft regt. initially, a Sheffield regt. who were also at Tobruk.

That's interesting I wonder if their paths ever crossed?  I'll try to find out what battery the father in law was in. I thought it was 25 pounders so it wouldn't be the same. He was awarded the medal for disobeying orders, it's either a medal or a court marshal when that happens!

Unfortunately he died before I met my wife but his son told me what happened. He was ordered to retreat but realised that German tanks were arriving any minute and if they retreated they'd have been caught in the open with no means of defence, so he chose to stand and fight. The fight turned out well, they accounted for a number of tanks and held their ground. The citation also mentioned other occasions when he displayed coolness under fire.

 

Thanks for the info on the books.

[harvey19]

1 hour ago, m williamson said:

That's interesting I wonder if their paths ever crossed?  I'll try to find out what battery the father in law was in. I thought it was 25 pounders so it wouldn't be the same. He was awarded the medal for disobeying orders, it's either a medal or a court marshal when that happens!

Unfortunately he died before I met my wife but his son told me what happened. He was ordered to retreat but realised that German tanks were arriving any minute and if they retreated they'd have been caught in the open with no means of defence, so he chose to stand and fight. The fight turned out well, they accounted for a number of tanks and held their ground. The citation also mentioned other occasions when he displayed coolness under fire.

 

Thanks for the info on the books.

The field gunners covered themselves in glory because of their brave actions.

Not only did the soldiers have the enemy to fight but also the head, flies and desert conditions made their life very hard.

I recall my father telling me that at one time the Stukas were targeting the anti aircraft gun sites. so dummy sites were set up.

These were away from the guns and had a telegraph pole set in the sand at an angle to resemble a gun barrel from a distance.

When the Stukas approached the gunners had to throw grenades to cause a flash which it was hoped the pilots wold think was the gun firing and direct them away from the real gun sites.

You are able to purchase a copy of the war diary for a unit from the National Archives which gives you the day to day activities.

 

[m williamson]

13 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

The field gunners covered themselves in glory because of their brave actions.

Not only did the soldiers have the enemy to fight but also the head, flies and desert conditions made their life very hard.

I recall my father telling me that at one time the Stukas were targeting the anti aircraft gun sites. so dummy sites were set up.

These were away from the guns and had a telegraph pole set in the sand at an angle to resemble a gun barrel from a distance.

When the Stukas approached the gunners had to throw grenades to cause a flash which it was hoped the pilots wold think was the gun firing and direct them away from the real gun sites.

You are able to purchase a copy of the war diary for a unit from the National Archives which gives you the day to day activities.

 

One of the Ponsford family of Sheffield furniture fame  was part of a gun site close to the father in laws, it took a direct hit. that set off their ammo and they were vaporised.

Huge amount of luck involved, and if like me you were born after the war that luck applied to us as well.

[harvey19]

Just now, m williamson said:

One of the Ponsford family of Sheffield furniture fame  was part of a gun site close to the father in laws, it took a direct hit. that set off their ammo and they were vaporised.

Huge amount of luck involved, and if like me you were born after the war that luck applied to us as well.

Agreed.

We all moan and groan about things at times but we have been a very fortunate generation.

I wonder how many returning servicemen and women suffered from PTSD which was then known as Bomb Happy or Shell Shock and influenced the rest of their lives.

The books I recommended are about the 51st regt. mainly but there are some excellent ones on Ebay about the field artillery

[m williamson]

1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

Agreed.

We all moan and groan about things at times but we have been a very fortunate generation.

I wonder how many returning servicemen and women suffered from PTSD which was then known as Bomb Happy or Shell Shock and influenced the rest of their lives.

The books I recommended are about the 51st regt. mainly but there are some excellent ones on Ebay about the field artillery

PTSD wasn't really understood back then and there must have been thousands suffering from it. When you think about it to have lived through and witnessed some of the things that happened they would have had to be abnormal not to have been affected in some way.

 

Looking back I think that my father suffered from a form of it. His way of dealing with it was constant change of jobs and location. Before I was married I'd lived in at least twelve different places and attended six different schools, one in Cumbria, three in Sheffield and two in County Clare. The last one in Clare was a technical college which I attended for eighteen months or so then we moved back to Sheffield 🙄.

That's how he coped with it, but never said anything much about the war until just before he died. 

[harvey19]

3 hours ago, m williamson said:

PTSD wasn't really understood back then and there must have been thousands suffering from it. When you think about it to have lived through and witnessed some of the things that happened they would have had to be abnormal not to have been affected in some way.

 

Looking back I think that my father suffered from a form of it. His way of dealing with it was constant change of jobs and location. Before I was married I'd lived in at least twelve different places and attended six different schools, one in Cumbria, three in Sheffield and two in County Clare. The last one in Clare was a technical college which I attended for eighteen months or so then we moved back to Sheffield 🙄.

That's how he coped with it, but never said anything much about the war until just before he died. 

Lack of motivation and anxiety also affected many of them.

My aunt was a single woman, a married woman, a widow and a mother all in one year 1944. Her husband was killed then just after D Day.

A much older cousin joined the merchant navy as a cabin boy. His ship was torpedoed and whilst in the water the survivors were machine gunned by the  Japanese submarine crew. The survivors spent 48 days in an open boat in the Indian Ocean before being rescued.

They had to adapt to civilian life but the memories must have been terrible.

[cressida]

I'd be interested to know if anyone's father was a desert rat.

[m williamson]

3 hours ago, cressida said:

I'd be interested to know if anyone's father was a desert rat.

Originally it referred to the 7th armoured division in North Africa, but Lord Haw Haw used it to describe all British forces that defended Tobruk. Don't think that he understood it wasn't regarded as an insult, in fact the opposite.

So if you accept Haw Haws definition both harvey19's father and my father-in-law were desert rats.