Gender Recognition

[HeHasRisen]

1 minute ago, cressida said:

What happened to him,  I can't remember how he became well known?

Some kind of antique expert I think.

[cressida]

Just now, HeHasRisen said:

Some kind of antique expert I think.

Yes,  I remember now,   I'll delete this if it's not acceptable but I always thought he resembled Jamie Oliver.

[Baron99]

21 hours ago, trastrick said:

Darwinism usually takes care of this stuff.

 

Trust Mother Nature

Yes, dig a  body up in a hundred years & folk will say 'It's a bloke'. 

 

The first thing people don't need to tell me if I ask them the time is "Well I'm a ambonec cassflux  non-binary polygender borea & it's quarter past two."

 

To which my response would be, "Thanks for the time.  Tell me. Do you actually have a day job or are your entire waking hours taken up with banging on about what has become a gender pick & mix bag of terms, which you pick up or drop with regularity when another term is invented?" 

 

I'd better be careful.  Someone or group might try to cancel me.  That's the usual course of events for anyone even remotely challenging or seen to be criticising the absurdities of the increasing number of gender terms.  I read  recently that it's now over 100 different terms an individual can identify as. 

 

[cressida]

I may become Tinkerbell

[trastrick]

To me, if it quacks like a duck.............

 

Some men, I don't consider real men, and some women I don.t consider real men.

 

Live and let live!

 

As Ma says, Let 'em get on with it!

Edited December 24, 2022 by trastrick

[despritdan]

1 hour ago, cressida said:

I may become Tinkerbell

unless you identified as a male, in which case you'd have to be called Tinkerballs.

[cressida]

Just now, despritdan said:

unless you identified as a male, in which case you'd have to be called Tinkerballs.

I could or would never accept that 🤭

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Mister M said:

I'll have to be honest and say that I'm not well informed when it comes to this issue.

Material Girls: Why Reality is Important For Feminism by Kathleen Stock is a good place to start. 

 

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I know that there is a small number of people who have gender dysphoria, who have a strong sense that they were born as the wrong sex. Is this a genetic condition?

Unknown.  Genetic, psychological, psychosocial, cultural.  Certainly multifactorial.  Have a read of the interim Cass report released earlier this year.  The huge increase in the number of young girls seeking intervention from the NHS GIDS since 2015 is astonishing, and the implications far more complex than provided for by the simple affirmative model endorsed by that (now shuttered) service.

 

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There is also the issue of 'self identification'. As I understand it, (perhaps I'm wrong), that someone who feels they are born as the wrong sex, have to live as a member of the opposite gender for a period of time before they can start treatment.

A GRC requires a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria and two years living as the opposite sex.  MSPs voted to remove the requirement for a medical diagnosis and reduce the time period to three months (six for 16 and 17 year olds).  A Scottish ruling also this month stated that possession of a GRC meant that a person has changed sex as far as the legal provisions of the Equality Act, barring some exceptions.  The Guardian article I linked to above has links to the relevant documents and further information.

 

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What I don't understand is, are there people who don't have this strong impulse from a very young age, who want to self identify as the opposite sex? I wonder what this is about? Is it because they feel they can't, or don't want to conform to society's image of what male and female is?

Failing to conform to society's expectations of sex and gender has long been a thing.  We've been crushing stereotypes and gender roles for decade upon decade.  If anything, the last ten years or so have been regressive: when a woman defies female gender roles she does so because she rejects those roles and constraints, not because she isn't a woman.  A butch lesbian isn't a man.  Make-up, and frills and coquetishness are not defining female characteristics.  Moreover, rejection of societal expectations doesn't negate biology or confer additional sex-based rights. 

 

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I know that some women feel threatened by the thought of non biological females being in the same space as them (e.g. single sex toilets and changing rooms), and that for some is understandable. 

As a male, it wouldn't bother me to share a changing  room with a F to M transgendered person, but then I've not had the experiences of being female, and the threats to my safety that sometimes being a female can happen.

 

I confess that I used to think something similar about women's changing rooms.  I didn't much care beyond the notion that communal facilities can be abused.  Other women's discomfort, and the reasons for that discomfort, were not a primary concern, I'm rather ashamed to say.  But if you listen to women, to other women, then a complacent, self-centred perspective quickly becomes irrelevant.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Guest

[Mister M]

16 minutes ago, Hecate said:

Material Girls: Why Reality is Important For Feminism by Kathleen Stock is a good place to start. 

 

Unknown.  Genetic, psychological, psychosocial, cultural.  Certainly multifactorial.  Have a read of the interim Cass report released earlier this year.  The huge increase in the number of young girls seeking intervention from the NHS GIDS since 2015 is astonishing, and the implications far more complex than provided for by the simple affirmative model endorsed by that (now shuttered) service.

 

A GRC requires a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria and two years living as the opposite sex.  MSPs voted to remove the requirement for a medical diagnosis and reduce the time period to three months (six for 16 and 17 year olds).  A Scottish ruling also this month stated that possession of a GRC meant that a person has changed sex as far as the legal provisions of the Equality Act, barring some exceptions.  The Guardian article I linked to above has links to the relevant documents and further information.

 

Failing to conform to society's expectations of sex and gender has long been a thing.  We've been crushing stereotypes and gender roles for decade upon decade.  If anything, the last ten years or so have been regressive: when a woman defies female gender roles she does so because she rejects those roles and constraints, not because she isn't a woman.  A butch lesbian isn't a man.  Make-up, and frills and coquetishness are not defining female characteristics.  Moreover, rejection of societal expectations doesn't negate biology or confer additional sex-based rights. 

 

 

I confess that I used to think something similar about women's changing rooms.  I didn't much care beyond the notion that communal facilities can be abused.  Other women's discomfort, and the reasons for that discomfort, were not a primary concern, I'm rather ashamed to say.  But if you listen to women, to other women, then a complacent, self-centred perspective quickly becomes irrelevant.

Thanks for the further reading recommendations, and your detailed and informative answer.

I've seen the the debate about Trans rights, and the (sometimes derogatory) treatment of trans people in the press, and wondered why all of a sudden it's flared up.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Mister M

[trastrick]

55 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Thanks for the further reading recommendations, and your detailed and informative answer.

I've seen the the debate about Trans rights, and the (sometimes derogatory) treatment of trans people in the press, and wondered why all of a sudden it's flared up.

The problem is LGT discrimination, is not the only problem in society.. It just happens to be a popular and politically divisive topic these days.

 

For generations of young men have been  subject to unwanted sexual advances from deviant men. From Scouts, cadets, church groups, boys camping trips, football matches, not to mention public toilets, everywhere from Fitzallan  Square, and Bramall Lane, to the BBC.

 

If the numbers were actually made known, it might explain why some people are not all that sympathetic to people with "different sexual tastes".

 

Like every topic these days, there's a "narrative" and a grim reality hiding underneath!

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by trastrick