L00b Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 ‘Hospitals in crisis’ https://inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-crisis-declare-patient-dead-hospital-waiting-room-floor-wife-strangers-2071852 sobering read 😔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteowl Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, L00b said: ‘Hospitals in crisis’ https://inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-crisis-declare-patient-dead-hospital-waiting-room-floor-wife-strangers-2071852 sobering read 😔 Harrowing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, L00b said: ‘Hospitals in crisis’ https://inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-crisis-declare-patient-dead-hospital-waiting-room-floor-wife-strangers-2071852 sobering read 😔 That is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 On 08/01/2023 at 18:59, El Cid said: So in your view, it's just one large organisation, that is underperforming? GPs are private companies making a profit. The NHS also use private hospitals, do you think that they are part of the NHS too? It's been reported that Labour are reverting to the system of GPs as salaried NHS staff https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/10/wes-streeting-nhs-money-health-gps-patients- https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/07/labour-would-tear-up-contract-with-gps-and-make-them-salaried-nhs-staff I was listening to Iain Dale on LBC last week, and he had a professor of Oncology on explaining why he thinks the NHS is in crisis, where it's gone wrong, and what can be done to put it right. While I don't agree with everything he said, some of it did make sense. I've uploaded it here for folks on here to have a listen - definitely thought provoking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dromedary Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mister M said: It's been reported that Labour are reverting to the system of GPs as salaried NHS staff https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/10/wes-streeting-nhs-money-health-gps-patients- https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/07/labour-would-tear-up-contract-with-gps-and-make-them-salaried-nhs-staff Its all a load of bull as doing so would also mean an even bigger shortage of gps as many would simply leave and go elsewhere where they would be better paid. One of the driving factors in the shortage of doctors/gps is the fact that many are elderly and now taking early retirement because of the extra tax they would need to pay on their pensions. More doctors are needed but you wont get any more new ones by alienating the profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Dromedary said: Its all a load of bull as doing so would also mean an even bigger shortage of gps as many would simply leave and go elsewhere where they would be better paid. One of the driving factors in the shortage of doctors/gps is the fact that many are elderly and now taking early retirement because of the extra tax they would need to pay on their pensions. More doctors are needed but you wont get any more new ones by alienating the profession. I think the government are reforming the system so that doctors won't be disincentivised from continuing after they reach retirement age. I think the system does need to change. GPs and doctors already aren't happy with the way things are. After the pandemic UCAS figures show applications to study medicine were up by 21 per cent in 2021 compared to the previous year, with 28,690 students eager for a career in medicine. Yet universities made 14 per cent fewer offers, giving places to over 7,000 fewer students than in 2019. https://www.bigissue.com/life/health/why-isnt-the-uk-training-enough-doctors/ Edited January 10, 2023 by Mister M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dromedary Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, Mister M said: I think the government are reforming the system so that doctors won't be disincentivised from continuing after they reach retirement age. I think the system does need to change. GPs and doctors already aren't happy with the way things are. .... Cant argue with that, only that what Labour are proposing would actually make it worse not better. As you say training and getting people to become doctors in the first place is the problem and making them salaried is, I think, a no starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 28 minutes ago, Dromedary said: Cant argue with that, only that what Labour are proposing would actually make it worse not better. As you say training and getting people to become doctors in the first place is the problem and making them salaried is, I think, a no starter. How would it make it worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dromedary Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 11 minutes ago, Mister M said: How would it make it worse? Doctors and GPs have always been private contractors and have never really part of the NHS. At the moment a GPs pay is determined by the surgery they run and dependent on its client base for funding. If they then get salaried all that goes out of the window because they then cant command their own pay and will therefore be subject to the salaries paid by the NHS. It sort of changes the whole structure so they will no longer be private entities. To be a private entity and command better pay they will just move on to where that happens. That's how I see it though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Dromedary said: Doctors and GPs have always been private contractors and have never really part of the NHS. At the moment a GPs pay is determined by the surgery they run and dependent on its client base for funding. If they then get salaried all that goes out of the window because they then cant command their own pay and will therefore be subject to the salaries paid by the NHS. It sort of changes the whole structure so they will no longer be private entities. To be a private entity and command better pay they will just move on to where that happens. That's how I see it though! That maybe the case, but there is no shortage of people wanting to be doctors, however governments have seemingly become addicted to pilfering doctors from other countries rather than training more home grown. I do know there was a lot of resentment at Blair back in 2004 for giving GPs a huge pay rise, and reducing their workload. I think some of Streeting's rhetoric isn't helpful. He starts from a position of wanting to "take on the vested interests of the BMA" in the same way that Ken Clarke did, when he introduced the internal market into the NHS all those years ago, and that got the medical profession's backs up, as well as calling ambulance drivers an "overpaid taxi services". That would **** anyone off. The 'internal market' just created vast levels of bureaucracy which takes away money for front line patient care. I do think Streeting's idea of taking the GP 'gatekeeper' role away, isn't the best way to go either. Essentially he's saying for some specialisms people can self refer. All that's going to do is clog up the system at the secondary care level, so a system of triage will have to be adopted. Perhaps there's a lot of disquiet in the country that people can't get to see GPs, and MPs are hearing this from their constituents, and MPs are wanting to change things so people can see their GPs. Nothing is set in stone yet, and Streeting is wanting feedback. But the system at the moment just isn't working at all for many people. Social care needs to be taken back into LAs and the NHS. It is so fragmented, and is clearly broken, at least Labour recognise that Edited January 10, 2023 by Mister M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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