Demise Of Nhs-Pay For Health Care On Horizon

[Guest]

1 hour ago, alchresearch said:

Explain this then

 

 

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

Good try pal but, easy enough to explain.

You cannot count the last 3 columns because that's only projected spending from 2023 onwards and not spent yet..

Spending on NHS in years 2014/2015  up until  2023 may have been rising but the government were still cutting staff.

You need to consider the cuts that were made in the last 12 years because some of todays spending,
is trying to recruit people who were sacked, back into the NHS. The same applies to other workers too such as the Police, etc.

Increased NHS spending is probably on all the Executives and managers rather than NHS MEDICAL staff which is what we are short of.

I was at the Hallamshire Hospital during Xmas & New Year holiday and the notice board showing all the executives and senior managers photos,

would be a complete shock to anybody.  I believe that's where all the money is going and this country has worked like that for years.

We need some WORKERS,  trained medical workers and care assistants, and we need them to stay once they are recruited.

They are still leaving  because the government wants to make them work for below inflation wages whilst throwing money at the top.
A graph such as you have put up does not prove what the government is spending their/OUR money on.
They have had 12 years to improve the NHS and it has just got worse instead.
 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Al Bundy said:

Yes, absolutely.

 

However, I think it's fair to say that over the past 12 years or so there are more and more folk working from home, working online and unfortunately a large majority of young ladies, rather than want to be nurses are more interested in having onlyfans accounts as they can make more in one year than they can in 20 working as a nurse.

Lots of younguns are digital nomads. Sad, but true.

 

That's not controversial, it's a fact.

I fully agree  but,  we must still have doctors, nurses and care assistants to look after us and we cannot just say "We can't get them so don't bother"

The government claim that they are trying to recruit these people but steadfastly refuse to pay an above inflation pay rise.

The best way of recruiting is NOT to say " That's what you get, take it or leave it"

There is not a man or woman working in Westminster who would work for  a nurses wage so tell me why we have to pay MP's (and especially government ministers)  so well.

Some savings to be made there when they want to make some cuts.

Do you believe there is any other way to save our NHS?

[Al Bundy]

31 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

I fully agree  but,  we must still have doctors, nurses and care assistants to look after us and we cannot just say "We can't get them so don't bother"

The government claim that they are trying to recruit these people but steadfastly refuse to pay an above inflation pay rise.

The best way of recruiting is NOT to say " That's what you get, take it or leave it"

There is not a man or woman working in Westminster who would work for  a nurses wage so tell me why we have to pay MP's (and especially government ministers)  so well.

Some savings to be made there when they want to make some cuts.

Do you believe there is any other way to save our NHS?

I wish I had an answer mate but I really don't.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Al Bundy

[top4718]

22 hours ago, Longcol said:

Privatisation people usually mean profits being taken out of the system. Not sure about the German system but here in France it's "semi - private" as well. That means people take out personal insurance (but don't pay National Insurance on top of Income Tax) and the bulk of insurers are "mutuals" like many insurers and building societies used to be in England until the late 80's - ie profits are re-invested for the members rather than distributed to shareholders. 

 

About 70 - 80 percent of treatment is paid for by the state (ie taxation), 20 - 30 percent charged to your "mutuelle".  Long term conditions eg cancer are fully funded by the state. Obviously, millions of people who pay into a mutuelle have no treatment / charges at all, older people tend to have more - so the mutuelle is one big pot covering all the members.

 

We can choose which doctors / hospitals we want to treat us - and there are far more hospital beds per head of population than the UK - although some of this due to the realtively low population density eg where we live there are a couple of small general hospitals with a basic  A&E dept within 20 miles, the equivalent of a Rotherham DGH a good hours drive away and the equivalent of a Hallamshire or NGH two and a half hours away.  GP service is excellent  and district nursing service brilliant.

 

Altogether impressed with the system compared to the NHS.

Something along these lines are exactly what needs to happen to the busted flush that is the NHS, everyone seems to assume private means US style healthcare.

14 hours ago, makapaka said:

Aren’t you constantly going on about people making money off vaccines - what about making money off cancer patients?

Covid vaccines were not needed for the majority cancer treatment is.

[Dromedary]

1 hour ago, top4718 said:

....

Covid vaccines were not needed for the majority cancer treatment is.

I don't think the majority are suffering with cancer though!

[Anna B]

11 hours ago, L00b said:

As requested (ignore Tweet, postcard is embedded in it, 2021 data)

 

 

 

I think you’ll find that the overall ageing of the UK population year on year, is much more of a problem where the provision of healthcare is concerned, than its overall increase.

 

Demographics is amongst the UK’s (and other “1st world” countries’) biggest source of socio-economic problems. Not enough births, too many pensioners for the dwindling tax base, not enough economic growth for increasing tax receipts to match the curve.

And who do you think will be willing to take on OAPs for health insurance?

How many pensioners will be able to afford their own treatment?

 

Maybe we are also about to see the demise of the old age pensioner...

Edited January 6, 2023 by Anna B

[L00b]

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

And who do you think will be willing to take on OAPs for health insurance?

How many pensioners will be able to afford their own treatment?

 

Maybe we are also about to see the demise of the old age pensioner...

Maybe?

 

Need I remind you of the government’s policy of releasing Covid patients to care homes BITD?

 

Of the government’s endless stonewalling on NHS staff arguably legitimate pay and service/staffing levels grievances of the past years?

 

If that’s not democide, I don’t know what is.

 

Maybe the old age pensioners, who vote very majoritarily for Conservatives, should have drawn on this supposedly ‘better’ life experience that they’re supposed to have acquired, projected themselves and used a little critical thinking, at the time of casting votes in recent times.

 

As it is, they are reaping what they sowed. Nobody else but themselves to blame for letting themselves get repeatedly gaslighted.

Edited January 6, 2023 by L00b

[Anna B]

21 hours ago, L00b said:

Maybe?

 

Need I remind you of the government’s policy of releasing Covid patients to care homes BITD?

 

Of the government’s endless stonewalling on NHS staff arguably legitimate pay and service/staffing levels grievances of the past years?

 

If that’s not democide, I don’t know what is.

 

Maybe the old age pensioners, who vote very majoritarily for Conservatives, should have drawn on this supposedly ‘better’ life experience that they’re supposed to have acquired, projected themselves and used a little critical thinking, at the time of casting votes in recent times.

 

As it is, they are reaping what they sowed. Nobody else but themselves to blame for letting themselves get repeatedly gaslighted.

This sort of answer really annoys me.

First of all not all oaps vote Conservative - not by a long way.

What have pensioners 'sowed' exactly? Except 40 years hard labour and tax paying?

What would you have them do to get listened to?

 

This Government of 12 years listens to no one, which is one of the reasons we're in the mess we're in. And our peculiar FPTP 'democracy' doesn't work anymore anyway.

If they won't listen to nurses, what makes you think they'll ever listen to OAPs? 

The UK pension is one of the worst in Europe.

The NHS is failing. 

Care of old people is also some of the worst in Europe. 

 

Short of insurrection, I don't know what is going to make this government listen, and I'm not holding my breath about Starmer's Labour either.

We are possibly talking about the extermination of millions of elderly over the next few years. They are seen as imminently expendable, as the Covid in care homes fiasco proved.

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Anna B

[Guest makapaka]

12 hours ago, top4718 said:

were not needed for the majority cancer treatment is.

So why does that mean people should be able to profiteer from it 

[L00b]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

This sort of answer really annoys me.

First of all not all oaps vote Conservative - not by a long way.

What have pensioners 'sowed' exactly? Except 40 years hard labour and tax paying?

What would you have them do to get listened to?

(…)

Your blinkers to uncomfortable facts annoy me much more, rest assured.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/ge2019-how-did-demographics-affect-the-result/