King Edwards School - Ofsted Report Failures - Forced Academy Status

[harvey19]

33 minutes ago, Anna B said:

The main problem was the segregation at 11, when one exam could take you to Grammar school, O' level examinations at 16, and the possibility of A' levels and a University education. Then a subsequent professional career. A great opportunity for clever working class kids.

 

But failing the 11 plus meant all these things were denied you, as Secondary schools didn't do O'levels or have sixth forms. So those kids were at a distinct disadvantage and generally destined for lower paid or factory jobs.

 

Trouble is kids develop at different rates, and some simply aren't ready at 11 but flourish at 12 or 13, so eventually a second chance was introduced later to transfer talented kids into the Grammar school system. But it was too late for some.

 

All this changed with Comprehensives. They were designed to offer all kids the chance to do GCE's or CSE's and move up into a sixth form and University. They also provided more vocational courses in practical subjects for those not academically inclined. So far so good.

 

But not all Comprehensives were 'created equal', and those in poor catchment areas with a disadvantaged intake of pupils , poor peer pressure and social problems fell by the wayside and failed to thrive. This has been endlessly tinkered with attempting to resolve the problem, but still exists to some extent today.  

Just a couple of points.

At 13 those who had failed the 11 plus had the chance to go to technical school.

I think those who showed the ability could stay on at secondary school to take O levels.

I don't know what the percentage it was but don't think many stayed on to the 6th form and very few went to university.

The disadvantage of the grammar school was that as the leaving age was 16( almost 17 in some cases)  instead of 15 it was often too late to start an apprenticeship.

 

[XPertByExperien]

There's too much emphasis on exam results in general IMO, if kid A doesn't get as good results as kids B and C, the establishment goes "Oh they're just thick/didn't put much effort in!" like way back in 1991, I failed everything except typing at GCSE level, I redid English at College in 1996, and got an A, and last year I retook GCSE Maths and got a grade 3 (I was after a 4 or above but never mind)

 

Thing is though, back in the early 90s, I didn't have an ASD diagnosis, that didn't come till towards the end of October 1999, so nobody knew what "problems" I had other than being deaf and physically disabled.

 

I used to read the Star on Thursdays for the jobs pages, not much doing for a guy my age (mid to late 40s) they want kids out of school with 4000 GCSEs to their name... I wouldn't mind but surely this is ageism at its worst? Not to mention discrimination against the less Academically inclined?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by XPertByExperien
More detail and a small rant

[harvey19]

5 minutes ago, XPertByExperien said:

There's too much emphasis on exam results in general IMO, if kid A doesn't get as good results as kids B and C, the establishment goes "Oh they're just thick/didn't put much effort in!" like way back in 1991, I failed everything except typing at GCSE level, I redid English at College in 1996, and got an A, and last year I retook GCSE Maths and got a grade 3 (I was after a 4 or above but never mind)

 

Thing is though, back in the early 90s, I didn't have an ASD diagnosis, that didn't come till towards the end of October 1999, so nobody knew what "problems" I had other than being deaf and physically disabled.

 

 

Intelligence and education are often confused.

Motivation can be an influencing factor.

Well done in your achievements !

 

 

[Anna B]

2 hours ago, harvey19 said:

Just a couple of points.

At 13 those who had failed the 11 plus had the chance to go to technical school.

I think those who showed the ability could stay on at secondary school to take O levels.

I don't know what the percentage it was but don't think many stayed on to the 6th form and very few went to university.

The disadvantage of the grammar school was that as the leaving age was 16( almost 17 in some cases)  instead of 15 it was often too late to start an apprenticeship.

 

Secondary schools didn't have a sixth form, and AFAIK they didn't do any O'Levels, certainly not during the 60's, although that might have changed much later on. It was one of the defining reasons why there was need for reform, and a move to Comprehensive schools.

[XPertByExperien]

1 minute ago, Anna B said:

Secondary schools didn't have a sixth form, and AFAIK they didn't do any O'Levels, certainly not during the 60's, although that might have changed much later on. It was one of the defining reasons why there was need for reform, and a move to Comprehensive schools.

As I recall, there was a lad in my class up at Gleadless Valley, who elected to stay on in 6th form after he could've left circa end of April 1992, to be honest he was a bit of a nutcase

 

[Anna B]

3 minutes ago, XPertByExperien said:

As I recall, there was a lad in my class up at Gleadless Valley, who elected to stay on in 6th form after he could've left circa end of April 1992, to be honest he was a bit of a nutcase

 

I think all Sheffield schools became Comprehensives in the early 1970's. It was the Labour Government that brought them in and Sheffield complied wholeheartedly, although many schools in the south east retained Grammar school status (and still do) I believe.  Don't know how they managed it but they got round it somehow.

 

 

[harvey19]

35 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Secondary schools didn't have a sixth form, and AFAIK they didn't do any O'Levels, certainly not during the 60's, although that might have changed much later on. It was one of the defining reasons why there was need for reform, and a move to Comprehensive schools.

They did not have 6th forms but I am sure there was the opportunity to take O levels by a few. I will ask a friend who left in 1963.

A levels were done in the 6th form, O levels in the 5th year at 16 years old.

[harvey19]

19 hours ago, Anna B said:

Secondary schools didn't have a sixth form, and AFAIK they didn't do any O'Levels, certainly not during the 60's, although that might have changed much later on. It was one of the defining reasons why there was need for reform, and a move to Comprehensive schools.

Just spoke to a friend who left secondary school in 1963 at 15 years old.

He was asked if he wanted to stay on for an extra year to take GCE O levels.

He decided to leave at 15 as he had been offered an apprenticeship.

 

[Anna B]

3 hours ago, harvey19 said:

Just spoke to a friend who left secondary school in 1963 at 15 years old.

He was asked if he wanted to stay on for an extra year to take GCE O levels.

He decided to leave at 15 as he had been offered an apprenticeship.

 

Thankyou for that. I know some secondaries sent promising pupils to other schools to do O levels, because they didn't have teachers available to teach the O' level syllabus, but most were keen to get working earning money. Jobs were plentiful in those days.

 

 

 

[harvey19]

7 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Thankyou for that. I know some secondaries sent promising pupils to other schools to do O levels, because they didn't have teachers available to teach the O' level syllabus, but most were keen to get working earning money. Jobs were plentiful in those days.

 

 

 

I went to join the army at 15 but was told to stay at grammar school until I was 16.

I was then offered an apprenticeship as a plumber and went with my father to the education offices on Leopold street to request to leave school at 15 but they would not let me.

I got a couple of GCEs which stood me in good stead in my later teens after drifting around in jobs for a couple of years.