Save Our Streets

[Anna B]

1 hour ago, Planner1 said:

Public transport in Sheffield was never free.

 

It was cheap, not free up to 1986.

 

Even then, bus  ridership was falling and car ownership and usage increasing.
 

People also forget that the money to subsidise public transport  has to come from somewhere. Back in the day there was a lot of dissatisfaction with the high level of rates here, which is where the subsidy money came from.

 

Good integrated public transport costs big money and needs the right legal framework. Governments over the last 40 years have shown no inclination to provide them. Even Transport for London are struggling to maintain their service levels due to enormous funding deficits. 
 

Do we think the public are prepared to pay for this integrated transport utopia?

 

 

Then if there's to be no other reasonable way to get around, I expect people to fight tooth and nail to keep their cars on the road. What else do you expect them to do? 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Public transport in Sheffield was never free.  It was cheap, not free up to 1986.

Even then, bus  ridership was falling and car ownership and usage increasing.
 

People also forget that the money to subsidise public transport  has to come from somewhere. Back in the day there was a lot of dissatisfaction with the high level of rates here, which is where the subsidy money came from.

 

Good integrated public transport costs big money and needs the right legal framework. Governments over the last 40 years have shown no inclination to provide them. Even Transport for London are struggling to maintain their service levels due to enormous funding deficits. 
 

Do we think the public are prepared to pay for this integrated transport utopia?

 

 

Bus use was falling at that time, simply because of the increase in cars   NOW WE ARE TRYING TO REVERSE THAT TREND IF YOU COULD TRY AND REMEMBER.

 

We all know that money to subsidise dozens of things in this country has to come from somewhere. 

IT DOES COME FROM SOMEWHERE -  IT COMES FROM US .  AND PUBLIC TRANSPORT COULD BE FINANCED IN THE SAME WAY.

If we  can  pay to keep those at the top comfy, we can pay to help those at the bottom.

 

Doesn't matter how much integrated transport would cost (and you can rule out any more get rich quick privateers from the start).

Governments and councils both,  spend money like water and waste it as though there is an endless supply and I could quote lots of instances.

 

Did they ask us if we wanted to pay for the World Student Games, Or the Olympics, or all those underpasses and holes in the roads that we paid for and then filled in again.

Nobody asks us if we are prepared to pay for anything except when they want an excuse not to do it.

You are dishing up the same argument all the time but remember  that Liz Truss's government were willing to borrow £100 billion to pay for tax cuts FOR THE RICH.

That's how short money is so you can stuff that argument.

We have got poor people who can't afford to put their heating on paying for the gas & electric bills at Buckingham Palace, Downing Street  and  dozens of other palatial properties.

OF COURSE WE CAN AFFORD IT if we really want to.

.

 

[HeHasRisen]

Capital letters! Shouting! Loud noises!!

[fools]

2 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

NOW WE ARE TRYING TO REVERSE THAT TREND IF YOU COULD TRY AND REMEMBER.

 

all those underpasses and holes in the roads that we paid for and then filled in again

bring back those underpasses, they reduce pollution

 

getting everyone to carry out their lives on a bus is a fantasy

2 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

remember  that Liz Truss's government were willing to borrow £100 billion to pay for tax cuts FOR THE RICH.

Balderdash

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by fools

[Anna B]

2 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Bus use was falling at that time, simply because of the increase in cars   NOW WE ARE TRYING TO REVERSE THAT TREND IF YOU COULD TRY AND REMEMBER.

 

We all know that money to subsidise dozens of things in this country has to come from somewhere. 

IT DOES COME FROM SOMEWHERE -  IT COMES FROM US .  AND PUBLIC TRANSPORT COULD BE FINANCED IN THE SAME WAY.

If we  can  pay to keep those at the top comfy, we can pay to help those at the bottom.

 

Doesn't matter how much integrated transport would cost (and you can rule out any more get rich quick privateers from the start).

Governments and councils both,  spend money like water and waste it as though there is an endless supply and I could quote lots of instances.

 

Did they ask us if we wanted to pay for the World Student Games, Or the Olympics, or all those underpasses and holes in the roads that we paid for and then filled in again.

Nobody asks us if we are prepared to pay for anything except when they want an excuse not to do it.

You are dishing up the same argument all the time but remember  that Liz Truss's government were willing to borrow £100 billion to pay for tax cuts FOR THE RICH.

That's how short money is so you can stuff that argument.

We have got poor people who can't afford to put their heating on paying for the gas & electric bills at Buckingham Palace, Downing Street  and  dozens of other palatial properties.

OF COURSE WE CAN AFFORD IT if we really want to.

 

I totally agree. 

Well said!

 

 

 

[Anna B]

2 hours ago, fools said:

bring back those underpasses, they reduce pollution

 

getting everyone to carry out their lives on a bus is a fantasy

That won't stop them from trying.

They'll ruin the city, and spend oodles of our cash trying to do it.

 

[fools]

19 minutes ago, Anna B said:

That won't stop them from trying.

They'll ruin the city, and spend oodles of our cash trying to do it.

 

turning slightly to the right in old age?

 

it's not just this city

 

Give it a few years, and 'Tonight' will be doing regular features on the dangers of electric car fires, and fights at charging stations, for the lucky few who can afford to drive.

[Longcol]

4 hours ago, fools said:

bring back those underpasses, they reduce pollution

 

20 years on they were also used as impromptu urinals, covered in graffiti and a haunt for muggers.

[Guest busdriver1]

21 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Good integrated public transport costs big money and needs the right legal framework. Governments over the last 40 years have shown no inclination to provide them. 

I had the misfortune of living in the only area in the country where fully integrated transport was introduced. (Tyne & Wear) if you disregard the political clap trap that was spouted at the time it was NOT a success and led directly to an increase in car ownership. 

On a personal level my 25 minute direct bus became a bus then a metro train then another bus - journey time 45 minutes if the advertised connections worked ( on odd occasions they did) .

At deregulation the bus companies replaced many of the through routes and found immediate favour amongst their customers. 

The badly designed* Metro system is still running despite them having to build lines to use the stock that was not needed due to the design faults of the original system and I believe is only needing minimal subsidy. They are getting new trains as they are 40 + years old and have been worked really hard all day. The metro system works but as an integrated system was a joke, this being the most likely reason that further integrated systems are not finding favour. 

*Badly designed in that one of the underground stations has too steep a gradient on half of the platform meaning it had to be fenced off and train sizes on the complete system reduced resulting in spare stock they had to find work for.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, busdriver1 said:

I had the misfortune of living in the only area in the country where fully integrated transport was introduced. (Tyne & Wear) if you disregard the political clap trap that was spouted at the time it was NOT a success and led directly to an increase in car ownership. 

On a personal level my 25 minute direct bus became a bus then a metro train then another bus - journey time 45 minutes if the advertised connections worked ( on odd occasions they did) .

At deregulation the bus companies replaced many of the through routes and found immediate favour amongst their customers. 

The badly designed* Metro system is still running despite them having to build lines to use the stock that was not needed due to the design faults of the original system and I believe is only needing minimal subsidy. They are getting new trains as they are 40 + years old and have been worked really hard all day. The metro system works but as an integrated system was a joke, this being the most likely reason that further integrated systems are not finding favour. 

*Badly designed in that one of the underground stations has too steep a gradient on half of the platform meaning it had to be fenced off and train sizes on the complete system reduced resulting in spare stock they had to find work for.

That doesn't mean that well designed systems wouldn't work.

It's common in this country to find that a good idea has been ruined by carelessness and lack of forethought.

If they want (when you say WANT, you really mean NEED) people out of their cars, there is no alternative to some kind of mass public transport system and,

no matter what the cost, it will have to be paid so, they need to stop pleading poverty, get planning and get it done quickly without cutting corners.

We don't need to be laughed at again as we were, as the only country with a new powerful aircraft carrier with no aircraft.