Sheffield Becoming A 15 Minute City

[Planner1]

4 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

You originally said, that those facilities would be put in place until I asked by whom, and who would pay,  and when<  so your line changes with every explanation asked of you.

No I didn't, you're telling porkies again.

 

15 minute cities is a planning concept. No one in Sheffield has ever said it's going to be adopted here, so why would there be any discussion of who's paying for what and who's building it. 

2 hours ago, HeHasRisen said:

Are people deliberately missing the point to be obtuse?

I'd think they understand the point just fine, but want to spread untruths and disinformation because it suits their own agenda.

[Planner1]

4 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Do you think we would let the council even begin to start charging us for leaving our area and entering another one on the lying pretext that we had everything we needed .

Yet another one of your untruths.

 

Here's a challenge for you. Where has anyone anywhere ever proposed doing that? 

[Planner1]

4 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

3 rd  challenge:   I have challenged you TWICE to meet me so you can show me how to walk or cycle to these facilities, and you still have not taken up my challenge because you know I am right.

I  CHALLENGE YOU AGAIN , TO COME AND SHOW ME,  and I hope a lot more people do until you stop spouting your officialdom rubbish.

Why are you ranting and bragging about living in a location that isn't within walking distance of facilities? You want to live in an unsustainable location? That's your choice, your problem.

 

Interesting that when someone says "the majority of people" or "a lot of people", or "most people", you like to make out that they are including you personally in that statement. Anther one of your tactics to sow misinformation.

[RollingJ]

3 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Why are you ranting and bragging about living in a location that isn't within walking distance of facilities? You want to live in an unsustainable location? That's your choice, your problem.

 

Interesting that when someone says "the majority of people" or "a lot of people", or "most people", you like to make out that they are including you personally in that statement. Anther one of your tactics to sow misinformation.

All yours, @Organgrinder. If I replied, I might just, for once, swear on here.

[Planner1]

37 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

All yours, @Organgrinder. If I replied, I might just, for once, swear on here.

Have you got a problem with people saying it like it is?

 

Feel free to point out if you think I've said anything that isn't correct.

[HeHasRisen]

6 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Have you got a problem with people saying it like it is?

 

Feel free to point out if you think I've said anything that isn't correct.

Calm down, he is actually agreeing with you. Read it again.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Why are you ranting and bragging about living in a location that isn't within walking distance of facilities? You want to live in an unsustainable location? That's your choice, your problem.

 

Interesting that when someone says "the majority of people" or "a lot of people", or "most people", you like to make out that they are including you personally in that statement. Anther one of your tactics to sow misinformation.

My location is not unsustainable. I live on an ordinary housing estate which is fine, until you talk about Zones and 15 minute cites and passes to move from 1 zone to the next.

In other words, without the council and people like you who enjoy laying down the law, everything is fine and will stay that way if you and the council mind their own business and leave us alone.

 

Looks like the challenge will not be taken up by you then, obviously because that would prove that you don't know what you are talking about.

It's probably a safe bet to assume also that you couldn't walk for 15 minutes yourself, and just like to talk about us doing it.

Another safe bet is that you don't want to meet anyone to discuss it either because you only feel safe when hiding behind a keyboard and playing the big shot.

I did offer you 3 challenges to prove me wrong and, to show what you're made of  but all you have proved is that you can spout a lot of hot air.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Organgrinder

[Longcol]

3 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

My location is not unsustainable. I live on an ordinary housing estate which is fine, until you talk about Zones and 15 minute cites and passes to move from 1 zone to the next.

In other words, without the council and people like you who enjoy laying down the law, everything is fine and will stay that way if you and the council mind their own business and leave us alone.

 

Looks like the challenge will not be taken up by you then, obviously because that would prove that you don't know what you are talking about.

It's probably a safe bet to assume also that you couldn't walk for 15 minutes yourself, and just like to talk about us doing it.

Another safe bet is that you don't want to meet anyone to discuss it either because you only feel safe when hiding behind a keyboard and playing the big shot.

I did offer you 3 challenges to prove me wrong and, to show what you're made of  but all you have proved is that you can spout a lot of hot air.

Looks like the social media monkey is pulling the strings of some folk.

 

Nowhere in the 15 minute cities idea - which is all it is - is there any plan to stop people getting out of their locality by car. 

 

If it was, don't you think the likes of Meadowhalll, the two footy teams, big employers etc would have picked up on it by now?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Longcol said:

Looks like the social media monkey is pulling the strings of some folk.

 

Nowhere in the 15 minute cities idea - which is all it is - is there any plan to stop people getting out of their locality by car. 

 

If it was, don't you think the likes of Meadowhalll, the two footy teams, big employers etc would have picked up on it by now?

Yes, that's quite true at this moment and we fully understand that.

The point we are making,  is that we don't trust the politicians, either local or government, not to go further with that.

As I have said before, we have all heard those reassuring words many times before "We have no plans to xxxx at this time, only for it to be done shortly after.

Other cities are having these things forced on them and zones with cameras where you get automatic fines.

15 minute cities are fine if they decide to do that and the facilities are there but, when they are tied to camera zones and applying for passes, we are not going to stand by and let that happen.

 

Planner1 himself said,  "Some of the low traffic neighbourhood schemes in London attracted a lot of  anger and negativity from motorists as they saw them as restricting their freedom to drive anywhere anytime. Some councils dropped them after negative reactions and my guess is that the hype about 15 min cities is at least in part an attempt to make them difficult for politicians to implement because of the negative publicity they attract.

He also said, regarding Low Traffic Neighbourhoods,  that some journeys" might take longer or cost us more"

 

Forget all this, we are too stupid to understand what's happening - we are NOT too stupid to anticipate the strokes that politicians will pull if they think they can get away with it.

Those people having to use the ring road in the CAZ will tell you that too.

I repeat WE DON'T TRUST POLITICIANS AND PLANNERS!

 

 

 

 

 

[Planner1]

6 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Other cities are having these things forced on them and zones with cameras where you get automatic fines.

15 minute cities are fine if they decide to do that and the facilities are there but, when they are tied to camera zones and applying for passes, we are not going to stand by and let that happen.

 

 

 

 

 

Which cities are having these things forced on them?

 

The only one I know is Oxford and they are installing a handful of what are essentially camera enforced bus gates to reduce through traffic on one route. They are giving local residents permits that allow them to go through the restrictions on that route. There’s no suggestion whatsoever that people would need a permit to leave their area by car.  According to the report I read the route that is being treated is going to be closed for a full year before the filters/bus gates come into use. So locals will have been using the alternatives anyway. 

Newham in London got a £20m grant for a project that was badged as 15 minute cities but it looks to be more about regenerating a couple of district centres. Again, no suggestion of restrictions in movement whatsoever that I can see. 

 

The mayor of Paris had 15 minute cities in their election manifesto and was elected to office, so you can hardly say they are forcing anything on people. I’ve seen nothing about any progress on implementation and again, no suggestions of people not being able to leave their areas. 
 

So exactly where do you think that proposals to restrict people’s ability to leave their area are being “forced” on anyone?
 

What is your proposed alternative if you don’t trust the politicians you elect and the professionals who get paid by them to decide what gets built where and plan the highway network?

 

Anarchy?