Chekhov Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mister M said: So a girl who has her boob touched, which she did not want during a snog, in your view is being unreasonable when she objects. All that straw for the strawmen must be costing you a lot of money MM ! What I actually said was : She'd have just moved his hand and said "forget it, that's one step too far (tonight at any rate.....), it's not happening". But now, she thinks she's fighting for women's justice. Listen love, you're not Emily Pankhurst, you're a girl who has had a misunderstanding with a lad you were snogging. It's something and nothing, get over it...... Where did I even imply "she was being unreasonable" in objecting to said hand ? Edited February 21, 2023 by Chekhov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chekhov Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mister M said: So a girl who has her boob touched, which she did not want during a snog, in your view is being unreasonable when she objects. And this is indicative of how in modern society people get upset, and being upset is the "ultimate sin". However... ...You say that it is so difficult for boys growing up today to get amorous with girls that it makes you "upset" reading a story about it. I'm sure I'm not the only one seeing the contradiction here. You are taking my comment out of context. I am not upset for myself, I'm well out of all that chatting up and dating game, and hopefully will never to have to return to it, but if ever have to it'll not be with young immature (and arguably over sensitive) young women. I'm upset for all the boys growing up now (esp my own) who will have to negotiate this minefield. It was awkward enough in my day (the 80s), but add in that these days some "Me Too Martyr" might start crying sexual assault if they move the relationship on a bit too fast for her and grope her butt or her boob during a snog just puts it on another level entirely. I feel very sorry for young people these days, esp boys if they are still expected to take the lead in where a relationship goes, girls not wanting to appear too "loose" and so forth. Edited February 21, 2023 by Chekhov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delayed Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chekhov said: You are taking my comment out of context. I am not upset for myself, I'm well out of all that chatting up and dating game, and hopefully will never to have to return to it, but if ever have to it'll not be with young immature (and arguably over sensitive) young women. I'm upset for all the boys growing up now (esp my own) who will have to negotiate this minefield. It was awkward enough in my day (the 80s), but add in the fact some Me Too Martyr might start crying sexual assault if they grope her butt or her boob during a snog just puts it on another level entirely. Very simple solution for any young in not knowing how to navigate this 'minefield'. Don't try it randomly Ask before even trying it Read the room 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPertByExperien Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Delayed said: Very simple solution for any young in not knowing how to navigate this 'minefield'. Don't try it randomly Ask before even trying it Read the room Exactly, the general rule with most ladies is "look but don't touch" unless they give express permission to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, Chekhov said: You are taking my comment out of context. I am not upset for myself, I'm well out of all that chatting up and dating game, and hopefully will never to have to return to it, but if ever have to it'll not be with young immature (and arguably over sensitive) young women. I'm upset for all the boys growing up now (esp my own) who will have to negotiate this minefield. It was awkward enough in my day (the 80s), but add in that these days some "Me Too Martyr" might start crying sexual assault if they move the relationship on a bit too fast for her and grope her butt or her boob during a snog just puts it on another level entirely. I feel very sorry for young people these days, esp boys if they are still expected to take the lead in where a relationship goes, girls not wanting to appear too "loose" and so forth. I've no idea about this errant hand on boob incident, whether the girl went to the police, whether the CPS decided to prosecute etc. However what I do know is that the rate of prosecutions in the country for sexual assault is appallingly low. Calling people "me too martyrs" after they've been groped when they don't want to have been groped isn't on really. People back off for all kinds of reasons in these situations, and some boys take things too far - either they don't know the boundaries, or that perhaps before taking things further, he really needs to talk to his potential partner. I was genuinely surprised when you said " It was awkward enough in my day (the 80s)....", I thought you would've been older, but you'll be the same age as me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chekhov Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Delayed said: Very simple solution for any young in not knowing how to navigate this 'minefield'. Don't try it randomly Ask before even trying it Read the room Sounds a right passion killer to me. If you are being consistent I assume the participants would have to be provably sober ? And, just out of interest, would that apply to kissing someone as well ? All those famous romantic movies would be well out of order wouldn't they ? 49 minutes ago, Mister M said: I've no idea about this errant hand on boob incident, whether the girl went to the police, whether the CPS decided to prosecute etc. However what I do know is that the rate of prosecutions in the country for sexual assault is appallingly low. Calling people "me too martyrs" after they've been groped when they don't want to have been groped isn't on really. People back off for all kinds of reasons in these situations, and some boys take things too far - either they don't know the boundaries, or that perhaps before taking things further, he really needs to talk to his potential partner. I was genuinely surprised when you said " It was awkward enough in my day (the 80s)....", I thought you would've been older, but you'll be the same age as me. >>Calling people "me too martyrs" after they've been groped when they don't want to have been groped isn't on really<< You must have an inexhaustible supply of straw, I never said that. If any woman, or man, doesn't want to go to the next stage so to speak, they just have to say, and the vast majority of men (or women) would accept that. What I think is disproportionate is saying being a willing kisser, a willing snogger, then crying sexual assault if they go to the next stage. I am not saying they have to go to the next stage, but a firm removal of said hand is all that's required. Edited February 21, 2023 by Chekhov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delayed Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Chekhov said: Sounds a right passion killer to me. If you are being consistent I assume the participants would have to be provably sober ? And, just out of interest, would that apply to kissing someone as well ? All those famous romantic movies would be well out of order wouldn't they ? That's where reading the room is required. Yes for consistency I personally wouldn't be exploring with my hands if she's drunk. She may be so drunk that she doesn't know what's happening or who with. So I recommend, when drunk, not going beyond a snog. Kissing. Again depends on the person and the situation. If I'm on a date and kissing at the end of the evening, most likely not considered inappropriate. If I start trying to kiss random women in public then yes probably. I honestly can't believe you need this explaining to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chekhov Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, XPertByExperien said: Exactly, the general rule with most ladies is "look but don't touch" unless they give express permission to do so. Many don't want that either, despite the fact they might be wearing clothes that do not give that impression..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delayed Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Just now, Chekhov said: Many don't want that either, despite the fact they might be wearing clothes that do not give that impression..... Good. I'm glad you can now understand why groping isn't a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chekhov Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Delayed said: That's where reading the room is required. Yes for consistency I personally wouldn't be exploring with my hands if she's drunk. She may be so drunk that she doesn't know what's happening or who with. So I recommend, when drunk, not going beyond a snog. Kissing. Again depends on the person and the situation. If I'm on a date and kissing at the end of the evening, most likely not considered inappropriate. If I start trying to kiss random women in public then yes probably. I honestly can't believe you need this explaining to you. Obviously trying anything sexual with someone who is paralytic is not on, and not that arousing (in any sense of the word) I'd have thought, but how drunk is drunk ? Bearing in mind it takes a lot of bottle to kiss a woman for the first time, and indeed a bit of booze usually makes both participants keener on the whole thing. 3 minutes ago, Delayed said: Good. I'm glad you can now understand why groping isn't a good idea I'll bet your foreplay is quick....... Edited February 21, 2023 by Chekhov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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