Failing Nhs

[hackey lad]

1 hour ago, Mister Gee said:

There’s a pattern developing here!

Tell us more , please. 

[Longcol]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

They won't recruit 10,000 brand new doctors tomorrow or anytime at all so that's a very pointless and stupid question to ask.

What doesn't add up is your post blaming it on the staff.  and,     as you don't live in the UK and you don't pay for it,  what the hell's it got to do with you anyway.

 

Are you getting ECCOnoob mixed up with L00b who works in Luxembourg?

 

I don't live in the UK - I did for over 60 years and paid my tax and NI for a good 45 years - and we still pay UK tax on our UK pensions - plus we have friends and family back in Sheffield and other parts of the country - so consider I've every right to comment on UK matters.

[ECCOnoob]

6 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

,     as you don't live in the UK and you don't pay for it,  what the hell's it got to do with you anyway.

 

What?  What the hell are you talking about 'don't live in the UK?'

 

I very much live in the UK.   In this very city.

 

Perhaps if you spent a bit less time shouting and reading some of my posts properly you might actually get to know which poster you are responding to.   You would also clearly see that I am not blanket 'blaming all staff'. I am challenging the system. I am suggesting it is hardly unreasonable to be asking questions about where the billions of pounds that get thrown into the NHS every year is being spent and why an organisation that has 1.5 million FTE staff levels and well over half of those being professionally qualified is seeming constantly screaming that they are suffering shortages and overworked.

 

I don't work in oversimplification, sound bites and hysterical headlines. I like to know reasons and nuances and query why things are the way they are.   I am open minded to alternative approaches and not so moronic to be writing off all mere suggestion of privatisation as some root cause of all evil.   I'm realistic enough to understand taxpayer monies are a dwindling resource and no matter how many times people try and preach otherwise, there are far too many people failing to take responsibility, taking the health service for granted and not paying their way.  

 

In other words, I am not so dumb to simply declare everything wrong with the NHS is a Tory problem and it would all be rainbows and unicorns as soon as Labour got in. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by ECCOnoob

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Longcol said:

Are you getting ECCOnoob mixed up with L00b who works in Luxembourg?

 

I don't live in the UK - I did for over 60 years and paid my tax and NI for a good 45 years - and we still pay UK tax on our UK pensions - plus we have friends and family back in Sheffield and other parts of the country - so consider I've every right to comment on UK matters.

I suspect that is probably the case and  I probably am confusing the two of them and,  if ECCOnoob does live in the UK,  then I apologise to him for that remark.

 

In your case, it's not my place to judge,  especially  if you have supported the NHS for many years in the past.

I stand by the rest of my entire post and decry any attempt to give the false impression that NHS doctors & nurses conduct strikes year in and year out.

I also deplore statements of imaginary events such as the government recruiting 10,000 doctors tomorrow,  I don't give much credibility to anyone who thinks that was even worth writing down.

I have been around well before the NHS was even formed and, up until Blair's meddling in the service and then the Tories cuts,  it was a first class service and admired around the world. 

 

The fact remains that the NHS has a serious staff shortage,  made worse by problems recruiting new staff and further compounded by the fact that the present staff are leaving at an alarming rate.

My opinion is that a top down re-organisation is badly needed and I subscribe to the theory that it is also management top heavy and needs more trained medics and less management & admin.

They also need to look at procurement and supply and finally put a stop to the serious waste that occurs in the service and the amount paid out in compensation for treatment failure.

There are many aspects which need close inspection and quick changes making but,  I will not accept that the staff bear any responsibility for this.

To those who think doctors and nurses are already overpaid and not working hard enough,  I suggest you come up with some ideas to both retain staff and to recruit staff,  without increasing pay.

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Organgrinder

[ECCOnoob]

3 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

 

My opinion is that a top down re-organisation is badly needed and I subscribe to the theory that it is also management top heavy and needs more trained medics and less management & admin.

They also need to look at procurement and supply and finally put a stop to the serious waste that occurs in the service and the amount paid out in compensation for treatment failure.

There are many aspects which need close inspection and quick changes making but,  I will not accept that the staff bear any responsibility for this.

 

 

I would wholly agree with everything you have said in bold. You are quite right. It does need drastic reorganisation.

3 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

I will not accept that the staff bear any responsibility for this.

To those who think doctors and nurses are already overpaid and not working hard enough,  I suggest you come up with some ideas to both retain staff and to recruit staff,  without increasing pay.

 

....BUT, as do many others, here you've started to drift into the realms of fantasy, the trap of overprotecting our almighty health service with complete delusion that somehow all frontline staff are absolute angels who are perfect at their jobs and worth every penny plus much more.  

 

That is clearly not the case.  I have a perfect right to be questioning the skills, necessity and competence of some of the staff because they are contributors to some of the failures of the organisation. Who else would it be?  

 

I would argue that some of those doctors and nurses are overpaid and certainly don't all work as hard as they should be.  Some of them may be clinging on or even bound  to outdated procedures and inefficient practices which fails to allow them to work smartly and cost effectively.  I would argue that some of the services the NHS provides, it shouldn't be. Some of those services should be put back on people's own self responsibility with charges and penalties applied when people do stupid things, expecting the state to pick up the tab.  

 

There are lots of reforms that could be done and they should all be considered. But lets not pretend that every single member of staff on the front line is beyond criticism. There's incompetents and lazies, wasters and drifters and egos in every company. The NHS isn't  immune from that. If it was, there wouldn't be £2.4 billion of negligence compensation payments last year nor would there be various NHS scandals occurring over history.  Those sorts of things involved frontline staff... right?  Those sorts of things could reasonably argued as those frontline staff failing to do their responsibilities or working hard enough... right?  

 

Oh.  For the record, I never said the government is recruiting 10,000 doctors tomorrow. I was clearly using it as a hypothetical example that simply throwing in more staff isn't some magic wand solution that's going to make everything better.  Its far more complex than that as I keep trying to explain. The questions need to be asked about what exactly is the shortages and where is the spread of those vast amounts of personnel we have working in the service now.

Edited May 27, 2023 by ECCOnoob

[harvey19]

5 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

I would wholly agree with everything you have said in bold. You are quite right. It does need drastic reorganisation.

....BUT, as do many others, here you've started to drift into the realms of fantasy, the trap of overprotecting our almighty health service with complete delusion that somehow all frontline staff are absolute angels who are perfect at their jobs and worth every penny plus much more.  

 

That is clearly not the case.  I have a perfect right to be questioning the skills, necessity and competence of some of the staff because they are contributors to some of the failures of the organisation. Who else would it be?  

 

I would argue that some of those doctors and nurses are overpaid and certainly don't all work as hard as they should be.  Some of them may be clinging on or even bound  to outdated procedures and inefficient practices which fails to allow them to work smartly and cost effectively.  I would argue that some of the services the NHS provides, it shouldn't be. Some of those services should be put back on people's own self responsibility with charges and penalties applied when people do stupid things, expecting the state to pick up the tab.  

 

There are lots of reforms that could be done and they should all be considered. But lets not pretend that every single member of staff on the front line is beyond criticism. There's incompetents and lazies, wasters and drifters and egos in every company. The NHS isn't  immune from that. If it was, there wouldn't be £2.4 billion of negligence compensation payments last year nor would there be various NHS scandals occurring over history.  Those sorts of things involved frontline staff... right?  Those sorts of things could reasonably argued as those frontline staff failing to do their responsibilities or working hard enough... right?  

 

Oh.  For the record, I never said the government is recruiting 10,000 doctors tomorrow. I was clearly using it as a hypothetical example that simply throwing in more staff isn't some magic wand solution that's going to make everything better.  Its far more complex than that as I keep trying to explain. The questions need to be asked about what exactly is the shortages and where is the spread of those vast amounts of personnel we have working in the service now.

Maybe the organisation has grown too big over the years.

There is a saying that a person can find a niche area to involve themselves in, eventually they need a clerk, then an assistant, then more admin staff. Because it has grown so much and promoted itself to seem invaluable no one questions it's necessity and so staff and money are spent there rather than on the core functions of the organisation.

[cuttsie]

Yesterday A nurse from the Western Park Hospital phoned me and asked me how I was feeling , She spent around 40 mins on the phone , gave advice , had a laugh , and listened .

Humbled I was .

[harvey19]

Just now, cuttsie said:

Yesterday A nurse from the Western Park Hospital phoned me and asked me how I was feeling , She spent around 40 mins on the phone , gave advice , had a laugh , and listened .

Humbled I was .

I think a doctor or nurse just talking to a patient can be beneficial.

Towards the end of my mother’s life her doctor visited her at home and knelt down on the floor so that she was not looking down at her. That was Dr. Bradley from Tramways  who was excellent in her treatment and attitude towards my mother and all our family.