Failing Nhs

[top4718]

2 minutes ago, Anna B said:

We follow the USA in everything like little lap dogs.

I don't know why either. There are plenty pf better models, but no, we slavishly follow US because of our 'Special Relationship' (which they apparently know nothing about....)

It just seems to be an assumption that we'll follow the US one not some of the excellent Euro ones. The US medical service is basically the "worlds doctor" and spends a lot of money on research hence the high costs.

[Anna B]

A colleague has just returned from a working trip to USA (Texas.) Says the poverty there is horrendous. Complete shanty towns where he was, with people living in tents and cardboard shacks.

The side of America we never see, and they don't publicise for obvious reasons.

[alchresearch]

17 hours ago, Anna B said:

After all that Tory Austerity, we don't seem to hear much these days about government debt.

That's probably because it has increased markedly under the Tories and is now the highest it's ever been.. 

You mean the austerity that Labour were also planning? in 2010?
 

Alistair Darling: we will cut deeper than Margaret Thatcher

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/mar/25/alistair-darling-cut-deeper-margaret-thatcher

 

And you might have forgotten about the pandemic.  Labour wanted longer lockdowns - how much would that have cost?

[HeHasRisen]

On 21/05/2023 at 18:58, Mister Gee said:

Do you come back from your place in Florida if you’re feeling ill?

🤣

[altus]

12 hours ago, top4718 said:

It just seems to be an assumption that we'll follow the US one not some of the excellent Euro ones. The US medical service is basically the "worlds doctor" and spends a lot of money on research hence the high costs.

Healthcare research happens in all developed countries, the US don't do significantly more compared to their size. The high costs have far more to do with their for profit health care system.

[top4718]

2 hours ago, altus said:

Healthcare research happens in all developed countries, the US don't do significantly more compared to their size. The high costs have far more to do with their for profit health care system.

They do significantly more, you're moving the goal posts to suit your argument.

[BigPP]

1 hour ago, top4718 said:

They do significantly more, you're moving the goal posts to suit your argument.

This may help you top4718

 

https://www.jwatch.org/na52991/2021/01/05/tallying-waste-american-healthcare

 

Tallying the Waste in American Healthcare

Worst case estimates suggest we might waste half of the $3.6 trillion we spend on our health annually.

 

It is the rare American patient or physician who doesn't know from personal experience how wasteful our healthcare system is. Still, the specific components of our medical waste problem haven't been well characterized.

 

Researchers identified six studies, published from 2008 to 2019, in which components of our national medical waste were analyzed, and estimated the costs associated with each. Each study identified specific problems that could be reassorted into six general categories. In order of cost, they were: (1) excessive prices (at a median estimated cost of US$169 billion annually), (2) fraud and abuse ($185 billion), (3) clinical inefficiency ($202 billion), (4) administrative waste ($281 billion), (5) missed prevention opportunities ($310 billion), and (6) overuse ($451 billion). Estimates of total waste ranged from $600 billion to almost $2 trillion annually, or 17% to 53% of the $3.6 trillion we now spend annually on healthcare.

 

To place these huge dollar amounts in context, the researchers identified other possible uses for these monies — funding the Department of Defense for 1 year, for instance, or eradicating all student debt.

[Anna B]

42 minutes ago, BigPP said:

This may help you top4718

 

https://www.jwatch.org/na52991/2021/01/05/tallying-waste-american-healthcare

 

Tallying the Waste in American Healthcare

Worst case estimates suggest we might waste half of the $3.6 trillion we spend on our health annually.

 

It is the rare American patient or physician who doesn't know from personal experience how wasteful our healthcare system is. Still, the specific components of our medical waste problem haven't been well characterized.

 

Researchers identified six studies, published from 2008 to 2019, in which components of our national medical waste were analyzed, and estimated the costs associated with each. Each study identified specific problems that could be reassorted into six general categories. In order of cost, they were: (1) excessive prices (at a median estimated cost of US$169 billion annually), (2) fraud and abuse ($185 billion), (3) clinical inefficiency ($202 billion), (4) administrative waste ($281 billion), (5) missed prevention opportunities ($310 billion), and (6) overuse ($451 billion). Estimates of total waste ranged from $600 billion to almost $2 trillion annually, or 17% to 53% of the $3.6 trillion we now spend annually on healthcare.

 

To place these huge dollar amounts in context, the researchers identified other possible uses for these monies — funding the Department of Defense for 1 year, for instance, or eradicating all student debt.

Interesting and no doubt there are areas that need serious sorting out. I don't think anyone would deny that. But they have some need to talk. Don't forget the American system leaves poor people in desperate need, to die.

I remember seeing a programme on TV that showed a carpark in America that was having a free healthcare day. The carpark was full and the queue stretched all the way down the main street out of town.

And the problems people had were horrendous. One man had a rupture so large he was having to carry his insides around in a wheelbarrow. Disgusting stuff in a civilised wealthy country. 

 

You want that to happen here?

It will if the Tories have their way and model us on the US system. 

[hackey lad]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

Interesting and no doubt there are areas that need serious sorting out. I don't think anyone would deny that. But they have some need to talk. Don't forget the American system leaves poor people in desperate need, to die.

I remember seeing a programme on TV that showed a carpark in America that was having a free healthcare day. The carpark was full and the queue stretched all the way down the main street out of town.

And the problems people had were horrendous. One man had a rupture so large he was having to carry his insides around in a wheelbarrow. Disgusting stuff in a civilised wealthy country. 

 

You want that to happen here?

It will if the Tories have their way and model us on the US system. 

Buster Gonads  ? 😀

[ECCOnoob]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

 

You want that to happen here?

It will if the Tories have their way and model us on the US system. 

Says who?  

 

This same hysterical scream has being heard for decades whenever the tories are in power.

 

But where is the actual evidence that we are going to go even close to anything like America has.

 

The Tories have denied that the NHS is up for sale.... Corbyn's electioneering grandstanding claims that the US trade talks included the NHS turned out to be complete lies....  It is calculated around 40% of government expenditure goes on the department for health and social care with around 160 billion alone going to the NHS in the last budget (which is around a 66 billion increase to the last budget Labour gave the NHS before they left office)......

 

The NHS still employees the equivalent of 1.5 million full-time employees on last stats with a 3.5% increase from the prior year.  Out of those, more than 52% of them are professional qualified clinical staff.  Here's something to put that in perspective the entire global McDonald's Corporation has just 400,000 more employees than the uk NHS.  

 

The NHS spending on the private sector is less than 10% and has remained around that for some years.   For most of us, dentistry, optical and pharmacy has always involved some form of private business. As do most GPs who are more than happy to keep running their very lucrative private practice partnerships.  Same with the majority of the drug companies for whom without them the NHS couldn't function and certainly would not be able to itself take on the vast amounts of money involved in researching and developing new medicines.  Let's not also forget that several large NHS hospital trusts offer to treat private patients and make a very tidy sum out of it every year. Some even have their own entire private ward sections. Nothing was changed even in your beloved Labour years So clearly plenty politicos, patients, consultants and practitioners more than happy to keep quiet and leave status quo.

 

Ultimately this whole thing about tory,  privatisation and US models is too much boy cries wolf syndrome. Heard it all before for decades. Seen all the same hysterical newspaper headlines, Union pot stirring and political showboating campaigns year in year out and simply not buying it.

 

If it is really their goal to be selling it off to the yanks, they are going a bloody long way round.