Failing Nhs

[harvey19]

10 minutes ago, top4718 said:

TBH I don't know a single person that has had to pay for treatment and I've got some quite elderly relatives.

Same here and we have had excellent service from the NHS for serious problems.

I wish people would stop talking about the American system and the N.H.S.

There are many other health services.

It seems that America is a smokescreen to find someone worse than  our N.H.S. instead of having a wider investigation.

Edited May 26, 2023 by harvey19

[harvey19]

3 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Never were so many fooled by so few.

 

They don't need to sell it to the yanks   -   their aim is already partially achieved   -   there's more than one way to skin a cat.

A lot of the NHS work already goes to private clinics.  As long as private medical firms get increasing amounts of work that the NHS should be doing,  the privatisation is already under way.

In my last 4 treatments supposedly by the NHS,   3 of them were done privately at Sheffield clinics,  and that's the way they get around the privatisation objections.

The  NHS is paying more.  The private clinics are getting the work and the NHS has less to worry about except paying the privateers bills so they just keep asking for more money.

The NHS is gradually being turned into a "contracting out"  organisation,  in the same way as council services like road works,  are done by private companies instead of council workers.

 

It is because we have an increased population, more elderly patients, more modern treatments.

We have not trained enough doctors and nurses plus other clinical staff and relied on foreign workers to fill vacancies.

 

[Anna B]

48 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Same here and we have had excellent service from the NHS for serious problems.

I wish people would stop talking about the American system and the N.H.S.

There are many other health services.

It seems that America is a smokescreen to find someone worse than  our N.H.S. instead of having a wider investigation.

Don't tell us, tell the government. They're the ones that copy America in all things.

I've long advocated that they look to the Scandinavian countries for inspiration.

 

 

40 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

It is because we have an increased population, more elderly patients, more modern treatments.

We have not trained enough doctors and nurses plus other clinical staff and relied on foreign workers to fill vacancies.

 

All true. But it's not exactly unexpected. It's been a problem and getting worse for years. Plenty of time to put a few remedies into action.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Anna B

[harvey19]

7 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Don't tell us, tell the government. They're the ones that copy America in all things.

I've long advocated that they look to the Scandinavian countries for inspiration.

 

 

All true. But it's not exactly unexpected. It's been a problem and getting worse for years. Plenty of time to put a few remedies into action.

An easy remedy is to have more training places for doctors, nurses and other skill shortage areas.

No training fees to be paid for people training in skills where the country has a shortage but they must work in this country for a set period after graduating.

[Anna B]

1 minute ago, harvey19 said:

An easy remedy is to have more training places for doctors, nurses and other skill shortage areas.

No training fees to be paid for people training in skills where the country has a shortage but they must work in this country for a set period after graduating.

Exactly. Not rocket science is it?

 

And there's no shortage of clever people queuing up to take up places in medical schools, just not enough places.

[ECCOnoob]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Spot on.

Hardly. Neither of you seem to have read a single word I put.  

 

Around 10% of NHS funds are going to private suppliers which leaves 90% still being done in house. Therefore it is nonsense to be claiming it is turning into a "contracting out" organisation or that the majority of its work is being done privately.

 

It is also nonsense to be banging on about partial privatisation when several of the healthcare services this country uses have always been private businesses. They were private before the service existed and continue to be private even now.  70 years and not a thing changed about that GPs still private businesses, opticians still private businesses, pharmacies still private businesses.....

 

I'm not buying this 'spending more' crap either. Looking at these inflated staffing levels of the organisation, as far as I'm concerned, the more  can be shunted to a private business the better.  Particularly multi-use the auxiliary and administrative parts of the service. It will certainly be a benefit to taxpayers who'd not have burden on training costs, national insurance contributions, pension contributions, holiday  pay, sick pay for these hundreds of thousands of employees....

 

Some of us bother to look into the nuances. It's not just about reading the top line hysterical headlines. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, top4718 said:

Did you have to pay for any of those teatments?

No,  there were no extra charges and it was all paid for by the NHS but,  I'm sure my treatments could have been done cheaper in house.

We know that the NHS is wanting more and more government funding all the time and this would be a partial explanation.

It also probably goes some way to explaining why Keir Starmer and Wes Streeting,  Shadow Health Secretary,  are accepting donations from Private health Companies along with members of the government.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

It is because we have an increased population, more elderly patients, more modern treatments.

We have not trained enough doctors and nurses plus other clinical staff and relied on foreign workers to fill vacancies.

 

Quite correct BUT,  why have we not trained enough doctors and nurses.   The government knows how many we need but still don't put the effort into training enough.

They already know,  that with private health care being introduced at a faster rate,  they can manage with less staff and so, see no need to panic.

Once it's privatised,  they also won't have the problems of doctors & nurses going on strike either because,  that will be the private health companies problem.

I predict that with increasing costs for health care,  the government will then start introducing charges or health insurance schemes and then it will no longer be  a free NHS.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, harvey19 said:

Same here and we have had excellent service from the NHS for serious problems.

I wish people would stop talking about the American system and the N.H.S.

There are many other health services.

It seems that America is a smokescreen to find someone worse than  our N.H.S. instead of having a wider investigation.

Nobody's talking about the American system.

I only started my post with that first line because the previous poster (ECOnoob) said   "If it is really their goal to be selling it off to the yanks, they are going a bloody long way round".

It's not about Yanks,  it's about private companies doing the work and costing more than the NHS to do it because they have their shareholders to pay dividends to..  NO SMOKESCEEN AT ALL.

A lot of people have this daft idea that, if a company hasn't bought the Hallamshire hospital from the NHS,  then it's not been privatised. 

That isn't the way they will do it they will introduce privatisation gently as they are doing and gradually change from version one to version 2 and thence cometh the charges.

Don't you know what a devious lot our politicians are?. 

[harvey19]

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

Nobody's talking about the American system.

I only started my post with that first line because the previous poster (ECOnoob) said   "If it is really their goal to be selling it off to the yanks, they are going a bloody long way round".

It's not about Yanks,  it's about private companies doing the work and costing more than the NHS to do it because they have their shareholders to pay dividends to..  NO SMOKESCEEN AT ALL.

A lot of people have this daft idea that, if a company hasn't bought the Hallamshire hospital from the NHS,  then it's not been privatised. 

That isn't the way they will do it they will introduce privatisation gently as they are doing and gradually change from version one to version 2 and thence cometh the charges.

Don't you know what a devious lot our politicians are?. 

I wasn't referring to your post which included America

I was making a completely separate about when people complain about the NHS we hear the constant call that we should look at the problems with the American health system. That is the smoke screen instead of looking at other countries health services.