Have The French Got The Right Idea?

[gamezone07]

On 24/03/2023 at 10:41, Anna B said:

The situation is very confused at the moment, and there is dissatisfaction coming from all sides. But one thing is certain IMO and that is that our style of 'Democracy' isn't working properly, and is not representing our wishes. Yet most forms of protest are being systematically shut down, so no, the right wing Conservatives are certainly not fighting for our rights and freedoms.

 

The Democratic system in UK is too much of a blunt instrument. We need PR at the very least, but many other things need to be cleaned up as well to make things better.   

I get Matthew Goodwin's, email newsletter(he charges for his substack)  Politics Professor and Writer, i think his politics are pro populist, but he really gets England, the red wall especially, he uses focus groups weekly and worrying they are turning back to the Tories with Sunak.

Edited March 27, 2023 by gamezone07

[Guest]

3 hours ago, PRESLEY said:

I'm having my doubts about Starmer just lately.   At first I believed in the bloke but something about him doesn't ring true,  A lot of people will disagree with my idea of Andy Burnham being the right man mainly because he is in touch with hardships this Goverment has made people suffer over the years.  

I would have voted for Labour had Andy Burnham been leader too. Burnham is a solid Labour man whereas, I see Starmer as a self serving  opportunist with no principles.

 

 

[Jack Grey]

Just now, gamezone07 said:

I get Matthew Goodwin, email newsletter)he charges for his substack)  Politics Professor and writer, i think his politics are pro populist, but he really gets England, the red wall especially, he uses focus groups weekly and worrying they are turning back to the Tories with Sunak.

Ive been away for a while and i was absolutely shocked at the price of food

Everything has trebled in price

 

I bought the ingredients for a ceasar salad and it came to £15

 

I think it might be cheaper to eat takeaways now

 

Sunak has done nothing to bring prices down.....in fact they have raised taxes

[gamezone07]

On 24/03/2023 at 17:59, m williamson said:

 It is entirely relevant that France is a Republic. It means that the French do not regard royalty as anything special, they are simply people, the same as the rest of us, no more, no less.

 

Would you be embarrassed if we were having industrial riots as we did a few years ago  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-36944509 and some foreign Head of State had a visit rearranged?

 

I wouldn't, again a shrug of the shoulders would suffice.

Big riots but nowt to do with industry, kicked off because of shooting of Mark Duggan.

On 24/03/2023 at 17:59, m williamson said:

 

 

[trastrick]

Just now, gamezone07 said:

Nearly everyone smiles when you take their picture abroad, though its a bit suspect imo.

True enough!

 

But down here, and some other places in the world, a smile on the streets and an acknowledgement is a "default" position, not just reserved for buyers and tourists.

 

It's good for the soul!

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jack Grey said:

Most conservatives think that the current Tory party is left wing

 

I dont think that there is a working class anymore....its more a set of values

 

Traditional working class jobs like Plumbers and Electricians are earning over £100k a year 

 

So you'll find people with working class values living middle class lives

 

And they do not want to vote in a bunch of socialists and marxists 

Unbelievable how often you can be wrong.

This conservative government is the most right wing it has been in 80 years. Only a little more and they would be close to fascists.

Of course there's a working class and Plumbers and Electricians were never at the bottom of the pay scales. the majority became self employed.

The working class are  the men, women and teens working for peanuts. Plenty of them on the minimum wage  AND BELOW, and they  will tell you they are not living middle class lives.

You don't know who they want to vote for, and it makes no difference anyway,  because you, and I ,on opposite sides, don't have a party worth supporting and you said that yourself.

 

 

 

 

[trastrick]

Just now, Organgrinder said:

Unbelievable how often you can be wrong.

This conservative government is the most right wing it has been in 80 years. Only a little more and they would be close to fascists.

Of course there's a working class and Plumbers and Electricians were never at the bottom of the pay scales. the majority became self employed.

The working class are  the men, women and teens working for peanuts. Plenty of them on the minimum wage  AND BELOW, and they  will tell you they are not living middle class lives.

You don't know who they want to vote for, and it makes no difference anyway,  because you, and I ,on opposite sides, don't have a party worth supporting and you said that yourself.

 

 

 

 

He's right you know

 

The thought of a current government of a nanny state being small "c" conservative, is a giggle to most of us conservatives (not Conservatives, or whatever they call themselves!) 

 

[m williamson]

1 hour ago, gamezone07 said:

Big riots but nowt to do with industry, kicked off because of shooting of Mark Duggan.

 

I'm  aware of that, there were also the Toxteth and Brixton riots, which were also about the actions of the police towards the black community.

My point about the French was that as a republic they believe in equality and are not happy about being treat - in their view - unfairly. They are also in this instance annoyed about the way that Macron went about imposing the change in what many of then regard as an undemocratic manner. My post was pointing out that royalty doesn't mean anything other than idle curiosity to them so I doubt Charles having to postpone his visit would concern most of them one way or the other.

As it happens I was in Paris with the family for a few days last weekend and despite having a reasonable look around we didn't encounter any rioters.

[Anna B]

2 hours ago, trastrick said:

Socialism exists for the "working class", a permanent underclass destined to be used by politicians in their lust to achieve their own "upper class" status..

 

A failed philosophy, a throwback to Victorian times, when railway carriages had a Third Class, and a First Class, but no second class. Steerage on ships, hotels only for the Upper Class, and digs and lodgings for the working class. Cinema "upstairs" for the landed, and downstairs at the front for the hoi polloi.

 

People have been educated (brainwashed) to accept their lowly place in society. Today they even self describe themselves, resignedly, as working class!

 

Off with their heads!

 

Only free enterprise and capitalism gives everybody an equal opportunity to be upwardly mobile and achieve the very highest positions in society, through, talent,  hard work, self discipline and merit.

 

Not perfect, but............ some of my once Haitian refugee friends were able to get rich in America, and open some fine restaurants here in DR.

I agree up to a point. But could argue that the class system has morphed into the 'Haves' and 'Have Nots' and is ruled purely by income and wealth:  the 1% (Haves) and the other 99% (Have Nots) which includes everyone else to differing degrees.  

 

That was pretty much the  position up to and including the Victorian time, apart from a few break out entrepreneur manufacturers,  who exploited the working class abominably to gain their riches,  

The the first half of the 20th century was the result, and was a maelstrom of revolution,  the formation of a Socialist party, financial crashes, poverty, and two world wars. 

 

This is where we part company Trastrick - with the paragraph I have highlighted.

 

It's not Capitalism that brought about equal opportunities, but the work of the Labour party, in power in the 1950's giving everyone better health through the NHS,  decent homes to live in  with council house building, a good education for all including free higher education and a possible entry into the professions. And most of all, a sense of worth, and a dream of aspiring to higher things. Thus we entered an era of social mobility unprecedented in history, and a generation that grabbed the opportunities with both hands.

 

Unfortunately that time is receding fast. 40 years of free market economics and 13 years of right wing Tory cuts has brought in a new ethos that knows the price of everything but the value of nothing. Neoliberalism; Capitalism on steroids, with little regulation, ruthless exploitation and no conscience. The things that gave the Boomer generation their chance are being dismantled as we speak, and we are entering a new era of winners and losers based not on hard work and opportunity, but wealth, guile and advantage. 

 

The current generation is now expected to be worse off than their parents, and they are damned angry about it. Who can blame them? We are back to the Victorian age where it's the wealthy, the ruthless and the exploiters who will survive and prosper at the expense of everyone else. 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Anna B

[L00b]

2 hours ago, gamezone07 said:

Nearly everyone smiles when you take their picture abroad, though it’s a bit suspect imo.

I’m just back from a week in Barbados (for a family wedding, multi-year planning & saving, before anyone starts).

 

Colonialist-style social chasm between (mostly white) land-owning Bayans and (mostly non-white) other Bayans is alive and well, let me tell you.
 

You don’t even get the smiles for a photo, there. Unless you pay. Lots. Precious little of which ends up with those ‘other’ Bayans.

 

Never seen it so flagrant anywhere else in the Caribbean.