Why Should People Vote Labour In May ?

[harvey19]

If the poorer pay a bigger percentage of their income in tax do they get a larger return in benefits ?

[sheffbag]

15 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Your friends are using the loopholes to save probably hundreds of pounds.

The rich are using them to save millions, tens of millions, or thousands of millions.

Do you get the point now or are you another bent Tory supporter?    I'll re-phrase that,  supporter of bent tories

 

Why should people on low pay, pay their full amount of tax, however low, to support your scrounging friends or scrounging government minister millionaires?

 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Oh, you poor suffering souls.  You want to use the loopholes, and obviously do, whilst expecting poorer paid people, who have no choice, to pay their tax.

That is unfair, it is greedy and it is typical of tory supporters.

If you want to say I've a chip on my shoulder, then fine.  I have a chip about selfish, greedy rip of merchants who are always ready to laugh and insult the poor.

No, I haven't failed at all and don't consider myself one of the poor, although I don't much care whether you believe that or not.

I just believe in fairness, always have and always will. and I will always will.

 

 

 

You have your view and I'll have mine.

 

 

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

If you look at things in reality,  The Tories hit you with a lot of taxes you don't notice instead of income tax,  so it looks as though they are a low taxation party.

 

We are, at this very moment under a Tory government, paying the highest taxes since World War 2,  despite the Tories having been in power for the last 13 years.

That's higher than any Labour government has ever charged you so you have to be more than a bit of a numpty to think that the Tories are the party of low taxation.

You must be living in fairyland.

 

I'm not asking anyone to vote Labour because I won't myself,  but voting for Tories is voting for the highest taxes ever and their silly supporters are too daft to see it.

Don't believe their lies.

 

OK, which other taxes are you talking about considering Income Tax, NICs make up over 60% of the govt income each year. If you are talking about VAT then you will already know that the poorest 20% of households only pay 15% of their total income on the 3 main taxes yet the top 20% pay 30% of their income

 

Which taxes are now the highest? Please outline so we can discuss.

If they are higher than any Labour government has ever charged then why was basic income tax 35% in 1976 under Labour and rising to 83% for anyone earning over £9,500?

 

Anyone earning under £12,570 doesnt pay any income tax and they are also entitled to a lot of helpful benefits either directly or indirectly through reduction  for example

 

Family with one child living in a council property. One parent works 30 hours a week and the other looks after the child. Working parent earns 17K a year. They are entitled to 10K in benefits per year according to the universal credit calculator. This means they are only paying tax on 4.5K of income

A person with the same circumstances but earning 27K a year in their job is paying tax on £14.5K of their income,. 

Total income to the household the same but the person earning more paying a lot more in tax. Would you agree that this is fair?

 

You said you dont hate working class men and women but you dont like anyone who uses the system to pay less tax as some posters have put that they themselves use the system to pay the minimum and i think they woudl class themselves as working class and definitely not "scrounging friends" (whatever that actually means nowadays)

Edited April 13, 2023 by sheffbag

[Guest]

1 hour ago, sheffbag said:

 

 

OK, which other taxes are you talking about considering Income Tax, NICs make up over 60% of the govt income each year. If you are talking about VAT then you will already know that the poorest 20% of households only pay 15% of their total income on the 3 main taxes yet the top 20% pay 30% of their income

 

Which taxes are now the highest? Please outline so we can discuss.

If they are higher than any Labour government has ever charged then why was basic income tax 35% in 1976 under Labour and rising to 83% for anyone earning over £9,500?

 

Anyone earning under £12,570 doesnt pay any income tax and they are also entitled to a lot of helpful benefits either directly or indirectly through reduction  for example

 

Family with one child living in a council property. One parent works 30 hours a week and the other looks after the child. Working parent earns 17K a year. They are entitled to 10K in benefits per year according to the universal credit calculator. This means they are only paying tax on 4.5K of income

A person with the same circumstances but earning 27K a year in their job is paying tax on £14.5K of their income,. 

Total income to the household the same but the person earning more paying a lot more in tax. Would you agree that this is fair?

 

You said you dont hate working class men and women but you dont like anyone who uses the system to pay less tax as some posters have put that they themselves use the system to pay the minimum and i think they woudl class themselves as working class and definitely not "scrounging friends" (whatever that actually means nowadays)

Firstly, you can shove your trumped up figures where the sun don't shine.  I am not conned as easily as most.

I also, have better things to do than try playing chancellor of the exchequer with you.  why you think you are such an expert on taxation, I can't imagine.

Everyone knows and even the Tories admit that the total tax take under this government is higher than under any government before  it.  If that's not so, why don't they deny it.

 

A lot of people won't claim benefits because they are too much hassle. They just want to live in a country that keeps inflation, rents, and interest rates under control so they can manage.

 

"family with one child" made up fairytales don't even get me to read them.  Do you think we are on Jackanory?  What a load of rubbish.

 

What exactly, are you trying to say or ask with your last line because, the way you have worded it,  you don't seem to know yourself.

What I hate, or what I don't like is not relevant to what I'm saying about tax avoiders so stop trying to confuse matters.

I'm quite sure that the people clinging onto their money as we've discussed, will not be the slightest bit concerned about how I feel, so you are just trying to change direction.

 

Maybe you are not worldly wise enough to realise that these terms which get bandied about such as "using the system" to pay less tax actually doesn't mean a lawful system at all.

I'm quite sure that many "ordinary working men" as you would describe them, don't have accountants plus tax havens where their pay can be re-directed to.

What they actually mean, most of the time is "fiddle"    where they work on a job and get paid "in hand"  as the term goes and the taxman doesn't even know.

You can carry on playing the financial expert and acting daft if you like and rise up with self righteous indignation but these tax dodging people are robbing the poor.

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Organgrinder

[sheffbag]

47 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Firstly, you can shove your trumped up figures where the sun don't shine.  I am not conned as easily as most.

I also, have better things to do than try playing chancellor of the exchequer with you.  why you think you are such an expert on taxation, I can't imagine.

Everyone knows and even the Tories admit that the total tax take under this government is higher than under any government before  it.  If that's not so, why don't they deny it.

 

A lot of people won't claim benefits because they are too much hassle. They just want to live in a country that keeps inflation, rents, and interest rates under control so they can manage.

 

"family with one child" made up fairytales don't even get me to read them.  Do you think we are on Jackanory?  What a load of rubbish.

 

What exactly, are you trying to say or ask with your last line because, the way you have worded it,  you don't seem to know yourself.

What I hate, or what I don't like is not relevant to what I'm saying about tax avoiders so stop trying to confuse matters.

I'm quite sure that the people clinging onto their money as we've discussed, will not be the slightest bit concerned about how I feel, so you are just trying to change direction.

 

Maybe you are not worldly wise enough to realise that these terms which get bandied about such as "using the system" to pay less tax actually doesn't mean a lawful system at all.

I'm quite sure that many "ordinary working men" as you would describe them, don't have accountants plus tax havens where their pay can be re-directed to.

What they actually mean, most of the time is "fiddle"    where they work on a job and get paid "in hand"  as the term goes and the taxman doesn't even know.

You can carry on playing the financial expert and acting daft if you like and rise up with self righteous indignation but these tax dodging people are robbing the poor.

 

 

 

Which trumped up figures?

The 35%? that can be researched anywhere and the figures i took are from Hansard

"A lot of people won't claim benefits because they are too much hassle." more fool them if they dont want to help themselves or take any of the external help that is available to support them calculating

The family with one child scenario took 5 minurtes using a website called "entitledto" which takes your data. and tells you what you can claim. Its recommended by the council for you to check your entitleement. See below extract fron council website 

For information on income-related benefits, contribution-based benefits, Universal Credit, tax credits, Council Tax Reduction and Carer’s Allowance use:

Turn2us benefits calculator

Policy in Practice better off calculator

entitledto benefits calculator

You can also check with a local benefits adviser to find out what you could be entitled to.

 

If you choose to ignore facts because they dont suit your argument feel free but take 5 min out of your day and you will see what i posted can be fact checked very easily.

 

i diont have an accountant but when i do my self assessment return i will use the full legal limits i am entitled to. Does that make me a tax dodger?

 

[ab6262]

57 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

Which trumped up figures?

The 35%? that can be researched anywhere and the figures i took are from Hansard

"A lot of people won't claim benefits because they are too much hassle." more fool them if they dont want to help themselves or take any of the external help that is available to support them calculating

The family with one child scenario took 5 minurtes using a website called "entitledto" which takes your data. and tells you what you can claim. Its recommended by the council for you to check your entitleement. See below extract fron council website 

For information on income-related benefits, contribution-based benefits, Universal Credit, tax credits, Council Tax Reduction and Carer’s Allowance use:

Turn2us benefits calculator

Policy in Practice better off calculator

entitledto benefits calculator

You can also check with a local benefits adviser to find out what you could be entitled to.

 

If you choose to ignore facts because they dont suit your argument feel free but take 5 min out of your day and you will see what i posted can be fact checked very easily.

 

i diont have an accountant but when i do my self assessment return i will use the full legal limits i am entitled to. Does that make me a tax dodger?

 

Organgrinder !owned !! i couldn't have put it better.

he spouts typical labour rhetoric

[Guest]

1 hour ago, sheffbag said:

Which trumped up figures?

The 35%? that can be researched anywhere and the figures i took are from Hansard

"A lot of people won't claim benefits because they are too much hassle." more fool them if they dont want to help themselves or take any of the external help that is available to support them calculating

The family with one child scenario took 5 minurtes using a website called "entitledto" which takes your data. and tells you what you can claim. Its recommended by the council for you to check your entitleement. See below extract fron council website 

For information on income-related benefits, contribution-based benefits, Universal Credit, tax credits, Council Tax Reduction and Carer’s Allowance use:

Turn2us benefits calculator

Policy in Practice better off calculator

entitledto benefits calculator

You can also check with a local benefits adviser to find out what you could be entitled to.

 

If you choose to ignore facts because they dont suit your argument feel free but take 5 min out of your day and you will see what i posted can be fact checked very easily.

 

i diont have an accountant but when i do my self assessment return i will use the full legal limits i am entitled to. Does that make me a tax dodger?

 

You are not the prosecuting council in a court of law so, it's not necessary to research anything if talking to me.

I have no need to check with anyone at all, regarding anything that someone on here tells me.  I pay all the taxes I should pay without question and, unlike some, don't feel it necessary to cry about it. 

 

No, you are not a tax dodger which is tax evasion and you are entitled to use the full legal limits but the tax authorities do frown on it with this statement.

The difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion is that tax avoidance schemes operate within the law, but are described by HMRC as not being ‘in the spirit of the law’

That does not stop every single one at the top, including our MP's and government ministers and apparently now, a lot at the bottom too. If I wish to dislike this, and call it out, I will.

 

This does not alter the fact which I have claimed from the start, that you are avoiding paying some of your taxes whereas the average worker, covered by PAYE  has to pay ALL of his/her tax.

You are therefore paying less than poorer people which is why I said that such people, are selfish, greedy, and robbing the poor.

 

You conveniently ignore what I said about tax dodgers and you apparently don't wish to condemn them either, and that, is the kind of attitude I am complaining about.

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Organgrinder

[harvey19]

44 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

You are not the prosecuting council in a court of law so, it's not necessary to research anything if talking to me.

I have no need to check with anyone at all, regarding anything that someone on here tells me.  I pay all the taxes I should pay without question and, unlike some, don't feel it necessary to cry about it. 

 

No, you are not a tax dodger which is tax evasion and you are entitled to use the full legal limits but the tax authorities do frown on it with this statement.

The difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion is that tax avoidance schemes operate within the law, but are described by HMRC as not being ‘in the spirit of the law’

That does not stop every single one at the top, including our MP's and government ministers and apparently now, a lot at the bottom too. If I wish to dislike this, and call it out, I will.

 

This does not alter the fact which I have claimed from the start, that you are avoiding paying some of your taxes whereas the average worker, covered by PAYE  has to pay ALL of his/her tax.

You are therefore paying less than poorer people which is why I said that such people, are selfish, greedy, and robbing the poor.

 

You conveniently ignore what I said about tax dodgers and you apparently don't wish to condemn them either, and that, is the kind of attitude I am complaining about.

 

 

 

You have your finger on the pulse of this thread .

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

You have your finger on the pulse of this thread .

ad6262 made reference to the tax system and the wealthy,  post #84,  which is why I did too and a long session carried on from there.

What's it to do with you?

 

As usual,  you sit on the fence with nothing to say at all except to take the p out of other posters.

You always sound like Starmer who always knows the other side is getting it wrong, but never knows the right thing to do himself.

Back to the Labour party now then, so you can do a Starmer again until you manage to think of something to say.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Organgrinder

[fools]

16 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

So, the man who believes in robbing the poor, thinks I am twisted.

Anyone who thinks keeping your money legally is robbing the poor clearly is not the full shilling.

[harvey19]

12 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

ad6262 made reference to the tax system and the wealthy,  post #84,  which is why I did too and a long session carried on from there.

What's it to do with you?

 

As usual,  you sit on the fence with nothing to say at all except to take the p out of other posters.

You always sound like Starmer who always knows the other side is getting it wrong, but never knows the right thing to do himself.

Back to the Labour party now then, so you can do a Starmer again until you manage to think of something to say.

 

 

I have asked you several questions which you have ignored.